Symbolism, gotta have symbolism.

Sorry, I''m a sucker for symbolism.

quote: Original post by Kylotan
A plot twist! Preferably more than 1. Not much point having a story if you know how it''s gonna go when you''re 1/2 way through.

Well yeah ... but the thing is that it''s so obvious that there is gonna be a plot twist nowadays. I mean, if you look at "how to write for Hollywood" type of texts, they all have the "you need a plot twist" rule (I don''t remember the exact text I am talking about, but it''s on About.com)

I mean, I absolutely, totally loved the 6th Sense, but only because the plot twist was so not cliche in this case.
On the other hand, in Godzilla, well, it was a nice and fun twist, but it just reeked of "we added the plot twist ''cause the Rules say so".

If you want twisted character and lots of shades of grey, you should try Michael Moorcock''s Stormbringer cycle. A classic.


Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !

Personally, I think the classic Stranger In A Strange Land fits all those requirements, except the dragon and the ''happy'' ending is debatable.

-Ryan "Run_The_Shadows"
-Run_The_Shadows@excite.com
"Doubt Everything. Find your own light." -Dying words of Gautama
//BLATANT PLUG
My manic new web journal! Warning: Some ''adult'' language used, not suitable for anyone without a sense of deep-thought and cynicism

Stranger In aStrange Land??? Huh. Personally I found it so boring I gave up on it halfway through. I like Heinlein''s Ideas, but his prose just puts me to sleep.

Alright, why hasn''t anyone mentioned The Princess Bride yet?

That is one of my favourite movies (and books) of all time, and it has all the plot elements of the perfect story. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the title of this thread, and it was still the first thing I thought of after reading your ''list''.

And if I recall, the narrator even lists off the things you need in a great story


"NPCs will be inherited from the basic Entity class. They will be fully independent, and carry out their own lives oblivious to the world around them ... that is, until you set them on fire ..." -- Merrick

"It is far easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it first passes through a blender" -- Damocles

If you try and write the perfect story, you will end up with something terrible.

Personally, I find Shakespeare''s works to be too formulaic, and to me they often seem to be written along the lines of... "gee (or should that be Zounds ), people like tragedies, I might write another one of them... have to think of a few character names though.", and when you seem people analysing them and drawing up graphs showing the level of tension and where the climax is or whatever... it gets a bit ridiculous. Sure, his stuff was probably pretty good in its day, but I see it as being a bit like a popular TV show is today... good, but nothing to push upon poor school children hundred years on. Why it is so popular seems to me to be that there is a whole image of smart scholars appreciating his stuff, so if you like Shakespeare then you must be smart.

Of course, there are probably some people who actually do like it, and I''m not saying that it is crap either. But my guess is that there are a lot of people who have ''learnt'' to like it.

So, with that offtopicish rant off my mind, you could write your ''shopping list'' of elements for a story, and then you could write a ''perfect'' story and go down your shopping list and have none of those items on it.

A story could be set in a totally abstract world with no dialogue, no love, no people, no dragons but merely 2d geometric shapes. Words would not be used to tell this story, but instead, an animation with sound effects. If done correctly, you could end up with a great story, imagine having a person feel empathy for a square... out there? yes, possible? probably.

And to write a perfect story, I put it to you that you would not be able to use a setting that has ever been used, or ever would be thought of without you. If a story is to be truly perfect, then it must appeal to all. Including those in 500 years time (think of the poor schoolkids who hate Shakespeare ). If you write about issues only relevant today, then your story will age. If you create a completely new world which will be new to anyone who reads/views/whatevers your story, then you can decide what is relevant in your world.

Of course, then someone will borrow the ideas because your story is so perfect, and then it will no longer be fresh so it isn''t perfect ... bit of a contradiction, perfection. It is so absolute that it almost needs to exist in a static universe or be totally static for otherwise if a perfect thing changes, then how can it still be perfect? Enough rambling... I''ve made my point... I think.

Trying is the first step towards failure.

That almost sounds as if you''re saying sun&shadow shouldn''t even bother trying to write something with perfection in mind. That her efforts are doomed to fail before she picks up a pen or lays fingers to keys.

By trying to accommodate all, you will only end up pleasing none. I do think that the perfect story is possible, but it has to be one that affects people by something we all share, despite our cultures, beliefs and opinions.

You need something that touches the hearts of people, that touches their souls, something that brings meaning and inspiration, if not enlightenment, and yet does not make them cringe from over-flowery speech and sentiment.

You need something that everyone can relate to, something primal, something natural.

Or maybe, that''s just what I need


"NPCs will be inherited from the basic Entity class. They will be fully independent, and carry out their own lives oblivious to the world around them ... that is, until you set them on fire ..." -- Merrick

Yeah, The Princess Bride is a pretty cool movie. I have heard the book goes on further than the movie as well.

How about adding screaming eels to the list?

A story isn''t complete without a plot twist AND some foreshadowing thrown in. The foreshadowing makes the plot twist so much more interesting when it does happen.

The Princess Bride was AWSOME. I saw it on HBO one day, at 11:30, and I got up, walked to the local KMart and BOUGHT the movie. It combines comedy, romance, everything a ''perfect'' game would have. Every time I have trouble with something I look back to the movie.

Anyway, the perfect story... Hmm. Ive read a perfect story. The Dark Elf Trilogy, The Icewind Dale Trilogy, Legacy of the Drow, and then Paths of Darkness. All by R.A. Salvatore.

"I''ve sparred with creatures from the nine hells themselves... I barely plan on breaking a sweat here, today."~Drizzt Do''Urden

I wouldn''t call what I am saying that negative. What I am challenging is the idea of writing the perfect story. Do you think that anyone has ever sat down and said "I''m going to write a story, which... just isn''t very good". I''ll bet you any amount of dollars that sunandshadow could write a better story than me, in fact, I''d be made to look like a royal arseclown, but for any story to be called perfect, is saying a lot. This story must therefore completely captivate all its viewers and be able to influence them however it wishes to. For true "perfection", this must survive the test of the ages, if it is part of a passing fad, then it is not perfect because it is not independant and therefore relies on other imperfect works.

To write a perfect story, you have to please everyone, and if you try to please everyone... well... you know the saying, and... its probably true.

But there is nothing wrong with making better stories, and that is possible, and it will happen. But rather than having a formulaic ''checklist'', get yourself into a situation where you a just dying to put something down on paper, something specific. Something which really interests you, touches you or just an idea of yours and shove that down (like... hey, I wonder what would happen if a few humans evolved to have gills ) and if you can expres yourself fluently with the medium you use to put down the story, then the same level of passion should come through to a reader.

What if this brilliant tale doesn''t have a happy ending? Do you have to go and change your ideas because they aren''t going to make a perfect story? Don''t let a shopping list get in your way, use it as an inspiration. Live your story.

Trying is the first step towards failure.