Yeah, we have gone over the problem of puzzle lock, that is, getting stuck because of a single puzzle, one option which we are thinking that we will go with, is that every major puzzle based point in the game can be solved two ways, one easy and one slightly harder, we feel that this could cause some issues though, in experienced adventurers finding the easy puzzles first, and writing the game off as too easy. A puzzle difficulty selector is one option, but im not sure i like that idea. the puzzles in our game are for the most part non linear, each puzzle required to beat the game is stand alone and not required to be done in any specific order, when you complete one of these 'milestone' puzzles, other optional puzzles are opened up to you. there are also lots of non-linear and non-esential puzzles, this is a game where you can zip right through by not investigating, but can play for hours if you want to.

Any comments on that?

Because adventure/point-and-click games tend to rely almost totally on their puzzles they tend to be quite obscure at least half of the time. This tends to annoy me especially - Oh I have to open this banana with a crowbar? Why can't I use this handy knife on that table over there that I can't pick up? Better yet, why can't I use my hands?

Etc. etc.

Non-linear progression helps a lot, as does multiple ways of doing something (even if the alternate way takes twice the effort). Better yet would be adding some kind of hint system which gave more and more obvious hints based on how long a player has been stuck at any given point.

I love adventure games. I've played alot of them, and admittedly, they are among the games I've enjoyed the most. Only a few months ago I was playing Quest for Glory, and Betrayal at Krondor. There is a special something that always makes an adventure game that much more enjoyable than a simple FPS.

Quote:

Original post by Kwizatz I was going to get "The Longest Journey" the other day, people say its pretty good, I might still get it sometime.

The longest journey is a game developed by the norwegian game company Funcom. I have a friend who played it through, and he enjoyed it thoroughly.

Hey everyone,

Just got back from tweaking our engine's pathfinder (what a pain).

so, looking over all the posts, I think I have a pretty clear idea of what people want from an adventure game.

1. Fun (naturaly ;D)
2. Non-Linear (same tier) puzzles
3. Multiple solutions for important linear blocks


also, another thing that i forgot to cover,

we we're going around the table in our team about weither or not the main character should speak, most adventure game's ive played the main characters speak. and most rpg's ive played the main characters dont,

so while this is an Adventure/RPG, which should win out in the talking piece, obviously, I personaly am for the main character speaking, since i feel it is neccisary to form a player/character bond.

comments?

I agree with you about the talking for the exact same reason [smile]

Quote:

Original post by EDI we we're going around the table in our team about weither or not the main character should speak, most adventure game's ive played the main characters speak. and most rpg's ive played the main characters dont, so while this is an Adventure/RPG, which should win out in the talking piece, obviously, I personaly am for the main character speaking, since i feel it is neccisary to form a player/character bond. comments?

That statement could lead to a very good discussion of the current nomenclature (i think that is the right word) of videogame genres'. Especially when it comes to RPG's, adventure, or any game with any avatar for that matter.

But instead of fueling that I'll just say that you know your game and the experience you want the player to have when playing your game best. The decision on whether the avatar should speak, would be so subjective to the actually content, user interface, and experience you want to provide, I'd say ask yourself and the beta/play testers and go back and forth with the idea for a while then decide.

Quote:

Original post by EDI we we're going around the table in our team about weither or not the main character should speak, most adventure game's ive played the main characters speak. and most rpg's ive played the main characters dont, so while this is an Adventure/RPG, which should win out in the talking piece, obviously, I personaly am for the main character speaking, since i feel it is neccisary to form a player/character bond. comments?

There are several reasons why it is character speech is acceptable in an adventure game, which don't apply in a CRPG.

In an adventure, you usually don't have a choice of characters to play, and you don't generally attempt to role-play him/her, so a single voice actor would be enough. In most CRPGs, you have a choice of classes, races and genders to choose from, so a wide range of voices and actors would be needed, and the player may well have trouble finding a suitable voice to match the character they want to play.

The basic premise for an adventure is: "A particular person is in a particular situation, and your task is to offer instruction and/or advice so that (s)he can reach their objective". The character's personality or abilities are not usually developed/advanced during the game, although (s)he may gain money, fame and/or possessions.

For a CRPG it is more usually: "A particular situation/problem exists, your task is to choose a character to play the role of, and then together choose/reach a solution in a manner suitable/consistent for that character's abilities, personality, background etc.". The character's personality and abilities will likely develop/advance along the way.

CRPGs in which you control a party of characters are somewhere inbetween the two, with a few strategy or "god" game elements thrown in.

In an adventure or a party based CRPG, having the characters talk to the player in certain situations would not destroy the atmosphere and/or immersion, whereas it would likely do so in a single player CRPG.

The storyline/plot of an adventure is usually quite linear with relatively few NPCs to converse with. CRPGs often have non-linear storylines/plots and have many more NPCs to talk with, which would dramatically increase the number of possible spoken phrases.

Whether I would find character speech acceptable in an adventure/CRPG hybrid would depend on the emphasis placed on each of the gameplay elements. In other words, whether it was an adventure with CRPG elements or vice versa.

Personally, I would be against the idea of a single main character speaking in a game where the emphasis was on role-playing, as I feel it would actually decrease the bond between the player and the character.

Hmm,

pan narrans: Right on! :-D


Infinisearch: yeah,

we could make it work either way, but it would result in two very different game 'feels' which feel is right i guess is the question.

Without player character speech, you tend to become the character, which is ok, but ive found in such situations you begin to lose sight of the character and the fact that the game is about this person, and not you =)


With player character speedh, you tend to get to know the character, which I personaly find better, the only difference is you now take on the role of yourself directing the player character who is somone else.




Wysardry: I think you make a good point.

In MW you can play only one main character, there is no concept of classes or different playable races.

So, basicly, we have a RPG type interface with RPG stat and batle elements, but the story is 100% classic adventure.

so we dont want the player to 'become' the character, we want them to play the game as a 3rd person (since it is already 3rd person does that make you the fourth person? :-D ) who guides the actions of the character but isnt the character, although in some cases we feel that the player can identify with the character's actions/emotions so there is a bond formed between player and character as if you knew them, but are not them.

so, given these specifics, do you feel that our decision to have the character speak is a good one?

Given the gameplay you describe, I think including speech for the main character would work.

However, speech is one of those "all or nothing" features, by which I mean every phrase the characters (NPCs included) say should be vocal, or none of them should. Having options to display text equivalents, disable the speech and/or skip dialogue is also a must.

Having one person speaking and the other using text destroys the atmosphere and/or makes the one using text seem like a "bit player". Having neither speak when you know the main character has spoken at other points in the game has a similar effect.

The only time I have seen "intermittent" speech work is in a party based CRPG, when the characters spoke to the player (only) to make him/her aware of certain situations by saying phrases such as "I need healing".

I hope you have a lot of volunteer voice actors available. [wink]

Looks like you guys are putting some good thought into the design wrt multiple solutions and such. Keep it up. And I like the term "puzzle lock."