This probably isn't new, and it's not all that fleshed out but here goes....... For an RPG I'm thinking of how to do the combat. Combat would be real-time and here's some details. I am thinking of having a variable per character that represents what state they are in a combat situation (e.g. attacking, blocking, dodging etc) and then another variable saying how close they are to completing this action. When a character does some action the variable saying how close they are to completing the action will be set to a number depending on many variables (the lower the better). Things like how good you are w/ the weapon and other things will affect it. You could also dodge and do acrobatic things such as flip out of the way and such. But this would have to do with how quickly and effectively you can do them based on how good you are. This way 'missing' isn't quite like it is in your average RPG. You would miss if the person dodges away in time. I think this would be a good hybrid between the action part of fighting and the stats (RPG) part of combat. Any thoughts are very welcome.

Sounds fun. It's similar to the system present in the Star Ocean series (the first 2 anyway - haven't played 3), and to a RTS/Action game I've been working lately (which is about equally fleshed out).

I could also add something like kicking someone backward which would cause damage and force them back so they wouldn't hit you til they stepped forward.

Also if someone knocks you down you would be vulnerable for a few seconds til you get up.

So I guess I'm thinking timing and where you are relative to other people would count for a lot.

[Edited by - Nazrix on July 19, 2004 12:14:15 AM]

Quote: Nazrix's idea:
When a character does some action the variable saying how close they are to completing the action will be set to a number depending on many variables (the lower the better). Things like how good you are w/ the weapon and other things will affect it.

Are these variables that the player can "level up"? What is the range of this variable? How much difference is there between a character with the lower value and that with the highest value? Can the player choose when to initiate a dodge? How much can player skill dilute the character skill?

Quote: Original post by Estok

Quote: Nazrix's idea:
When a character does some action the variable saying how close they are to completing the action will be set to a number depending on many variables (the lower the better). Things like how good you are w/ the weapon and other things will affect it.

Are these variables that the player can "level up"? What is the range of this variable? How much difference is there between a character with the lower value and that with the highest value? Can the player choose when to initiate a dodge? How much can player skill dilute the character skill?

Oh, I forgot to mention:
That variable will decrease every so many cycles (not sure exactly how much...I'd have to implement it and see).

So when that variable hits zero, the action is finished. So it may take X number of game cycles to complete a sword swing. So if someone else is 'better' at using his weapon, they could swing faster thus hitting more times in a given slice of time.

Or if they swing faster they could swing and then maybe run away before the other person could finish their swing and hit.

Those are the sorts of things I'm thinking of.

You wouldn't 'level-up' that variable directly, but many other variables would influence it. Like how good you are at what you're doing (swinging a sword, parrying, blocking, acrobatics, etc).

Your physical abilities would affect it too. As in how angile or strong you are. If you're stronger you can probably swing harder but maybe not dodge as fast.

Thanks for questioning that cause I needed to elloborate on that.

Also, I was considering maybe if you are hit during a swing or some action it could discontinue your action thus interupting you. I'm not sure if that would make things too difficult though.

Oh yeah the player will certainly initiate the dodge. A dodge or flip or attack or backstab or cast a spell or whtaever are all the same. They are actions that take a certain amount of time that have some effect in combat.

GOod question about player skill vs character skilly. I think player skill will come in when you have to strategically chose when to move out of the way etc. Character skill will dictate how well you do this.

Of course this is all relative. If your character's skill is bad and slow and the opponent's is too then you won't notice being bad.

Also your variable isn't constant. Say you are good at dodging and bad at swinging a sword. When you dodge your timing variable will be good and fast but if you swing a sword then you will be slower and more vulnerable to attacks during your swing.

Thoughts:

Suppose character A is the Ace fighter. A can parry, attack, block, dodge at the maximum speed.

Suppose character B is the newB fighter. B can't be any slower.

Suppose I've just got your game, and I am B. Everything seem normal as I fight against monsters of my level. I don't feel that B is particular (or unbearably) slow. When I go PvP using B, with another B, everything work out fine and normal.

Suppose now I come over to your house, and you let me play your A character. So I got on and PvP using A, and I found that:

a) OMG A is so fast! But, the enemy is equally fast, and I can't react to it. So I ended up just randomly hitting the action buttons. There is no way that I can tell when he is trying to hit me and to decide that I should block or dodge or whatever. Everything just happens so quick.

or

b) Hmm... A is faster than my B, but not much faster. I wonder how many levels there are between A and B. It seems that I would hardly notice the differences as I level up.

Quote: Original post by Estok

a) OMG A is so fast! But, the enemy is equally fast, and I can't react to it. So I ended up just randomly hitting the action buttons. There is no way that I can tell when he is trying to hit me and to decide that I should block or dodge or whatever. Everything just happens so quick.

that's a good point...

Perhaps I could do a matrix-style slow motion thing. I do want the player to be able to react and strategize.
Any other ideas?

You could use a Hybrid Heaven type system. HH was an N64 game that was part fighting game and part RPG, where combat was entirely based on reactions and counterattacks, basically. Whenever you were about to attack, the game would freeze and pop up with a menu with choices corresponding to controller buttons (so no scrolling around here), and whenever you were attacks, a similar menu would be presented with possible reactions.

Rather than have the combat in real time, you could adapt HH's system, in that as you're being attacked, the game freezes (or goes into slow motion, I prefer the freeze thing since it's less Matrix-ish) while you select an option. The amount of time you have could be based on the combat ability/speed of the character being attacked, possibly altered by the combat ability/speed of the attacking NPC. A very slow character might only have 2 seconds to react, while if you were fast, you'd have more time to select the proper reaction.

Alternatively, you could have a set time, like three seconds, to choose the action regardless of the character's ability, speed or combat state. The rest of combat would unfold as you originally describd, with slow characters possibly unable to dodge a fast attack in time, and fast characters able to parry attacks in no time.

Finally, your idea is also vaguely reminiscent of Grandia's battle system. In that game, an action bar split into two parts stayed at the top of the screen throughout battles. The first section took up about 85% of the bar. Each character or NPC in battle was represented with a small icon, and, in real time, that icon would move to the right at a speed based on the speed of the respective character or NPC. When the icon reached the second section, combat would freeze so the player would select an action. When the action was selected for that character, the character would then start moving through the second section; when he or she reached the end of the bar, the action would be executed. As you might imagine, quick attacks were executed almost instantly, but spells could be interrupted, as could long range attacks (ie. a melee character running towards an NPC across the screen).

Just something to think about.

zircon_st, those are excellent ideas. Thanks a lot.