Imagine an empire in an RPG made up of different fuedal clans that believe in rule through strength and ritualized chaos. What the laws are, how safe you are, what counts as illegal items, and what your social standing is all depends on the clan that's currently on top. The empire itself would be optional to travel in. But going in, especially as a foreigner, would depend on having either lots of firepower, good alliances, or a fast tongue. Rogues and robbers in this realm would be nearly non-existent (why take the risk of commiting crime when tomorrow the crime might be legal?). However, safe routes might suddenly become toll / extortion routes. Safe harbors might change hands to those who were your blood enemy. The change would occur at least once every couple of months, but could be major (national laws different, items banned) or minor (road closed, local laws different). As a merchant, you might make a killing if you could snap up former contraband items and sell them, or hide your supplies while they temporarily go illegal. There would be many assassination and destabelization missions for the privateer. And anyone good in sneaking around would be highly prized. An information network gives players a heads up on the upcoming changes well in advance so that they can either shift their loyalties, take critical missions to try to disrupt the process, or go to ground. If this place of shifting rules existed, would you even interact with it, or would you stay in more stable territory? The race this time is the Kovaunn, for those interested. They're essentially short lizards, a matriarchy, with the females having wings. The women rule by covert competition and specialize in assassination, bribery, politics and intrigue. Dynasties of sisterhoods ritually war for control in order to secure resources, power, and a supply of docilized males (only a fraction of which can, due to a genetic disaster, further the bloodlines). The Kovaun doctrine states that "Only the weak are betrayed." Strength in their society comes more from political alliances and cunning than overt domination, though they're not opposed to the iron fist (they simply think it lacks beauty, which is a core principle that guides their dominant religions). Players play a female character that gains prestige by acquiring either skilled males (through stats of beauty and strength) and special trophies from rival females (like teeth, an eye, or sacred jewelry) or through a reputation of conquest and expansion. Beauty and strength are modified by genetic engineering, by incorporating material from rivals or by artful scarring, rather than by powdering one's nose. Players are loaned a ship by a clan, and that clan acts as their patron, helping them upgrade the ship, and occassionally requiring them to take missions. As a Kovaunn Executrix (Captain), the player must hire other Sisters (females) to help run the ship. Sisters come with their own harem of skilled males, but players may find themselves competing with their own officers for sway over the crew (and even their own harem, through a conversation option of wooing other males). A Kovaunn crew might be much more volatile than a human crew, depending on the ratio of player strength to NPC strength. Players can manage the chaos, though, by calling them out rivals to ritual combat (where trophies are gained) or humiliating them using ritual word-play. Showing weakness, indecisiveness or vulnerability can lead to assassination or ousting if the player drops their guard. The same mechanisms listed in other posts of morale and loyalty still apply, but the consequences are more conflict and violence oriented. So if players play humans in the Kovaunn empire, they face outward instability. But if they play an Executrix, they deal with both inner world and outer world volatility. -------------------- Just waiting for the mothership... [edited by - wavinator on April 27, 2004 7:50:11 PM]

Nice post again Wavinator, im working something out like this so its really cool to see this.

It would make for a nice change of such a dynamic society system would arise, where lawas and rulerships switch between who has seized power, very dynamic.

About the rogue class.
You mentioned that it would almost be non existent, but I think this kind of world would be paradise for a rogueish person.
Rogues live by the laws of society meaning they use those laws at their own advantage, and they can make their way into any society no matter how much it would change.

Rogues are very adaptable beings like chameleons are to their environment. If such an environment would suddenly shift, a rogue would not have to take much time figuring out how, where, what to esploit next. So this kind of world would make it even MORE interesting for a rogue person.

And I like how you worked out the Kovaunn race, its nice to see females being so competitive instead of the typical male macho thing haha. But what I dont get is your last sentence, do you mean it would be harder or worse to live as a human in your world or ?

Well anywasy thanks for all those nice threads I cant wait to see more for what you are working on, very interesting.

Good luck !

Another thing, would a process trigger to, or will the NPC A.I''s trigger this dynamic change.
What I mean his will their behavior shift whos on top of the game in your world ? Or will it be a randon number that triggers this change time after time ?

It would be cool if you could influence this change. For intance, two rival clans are competing for the top spot and both are equally likely to get it, so when you go and attack one of these clans the other takes advantage of the situation. This would require some well designed AI however.

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I am the master of stories.....
If only I could just write them down...

So you are saying that the person in power constanly changes so the laws of an area change? Guards (and the populus) would have to be constanly trained to keep up with the new laws. Wouldn''t leave much time for productive work.

You: *Whistling while walking down the streat*
Guard1: *pulls trigger on gun*
You: *fall to the ground dead*
Guard2: "What did he do to deserve that?"
Guard1: "Whistling!"
Guard2: "Ummmmm, that was repealed last week."


You could also go the route that the race is semi-nomadic, travaling around with her harem in an attempt to get more men. In this case the laws would be traveling with the group (with miner changes ever now and then).

As for the information network..... Why would it inform you of upcoming changes? Or even if it did, why would it be at all accurate based on the fact that betraials can happen at any time to anyone? The information network could be more of a news boardcast: "It is now leagle to trade humans as slaves but only to Kovaunn Executrix''s with a status higher than 2", or "Planet Renvardi has just been captured by House Hurg swron enamy of all humans", "Quarts crystals are now banned. Any cargo transport that currently has quarts crystals has two days to leave."etc.

So your mission could change drasticly if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

As long as I get to be Yojimbo, I''m all for it.

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Original post by Jamaludin
About the rogue class.
You mentioned that it would almost be non existent, but I think this kind of world would be paradise for a rogueish person.
Rogues live by the laws of society meaning they use those laws at their own advantage, and they can make their way into any society no matter how much it would change.

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You might be right since, thinking about this more, rogues might arise simply because the law has tilted against them. In fact, maybe you have a higher amount than average of rogues?

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And I like how you worked out the Kovaunn race, its nice to see females being so competitive instead of the typical male macho thing haha.

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Yeah, I like the reversal AND I'm trying to tread lightly on the stereotypes. Kind of keep them just balanced enough for you to recognize. The idea of a harem apply to the males for a change is funny to me, too.

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But what I dont get is your last sentence, do you mean it would be harder or worse to live as a human in your world or ?

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Oh, I just meant as a trader it would be tricky to be a human because you'd deal with changing laws, but as a Kovaunn Executrix it would be much harder. On her ship, she'd have to deal with shifting alliances AND out in Kovaunn territory she'd have to deal with the same. Of course, if she were trading in the human empires, things would be a bit more stable in the outer world.

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Well anywasy thanks for all those nice threads I cant wait to see more for what you are working on, very interesting.

Good luck !

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As always, thanks for the enthusiasm.

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Another thing, would a process trigger to, or will the NPC A.I's trigger this dynamic change.
What I mean his will their behavior shift whos on top of the game in your world ? Or will it be a randon number that triggers this change time after time ?

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This is hooked into a Risk-like changing universe I've got ideas on. So factions and key characters will have stats which will influence behind the scenes tests. When players take missions for a faction or empire, it'll modify the "roll." The amount will depend on the player's degree of success in the mission.

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Just waiting for the mothership...

[edited by - wavinator on April 30, 2004 2:13:09 AM]

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Original post by Nathaniel Hammen
It would be cool if you could influence this change. For intance, two rival clans are competing for the top spot and both are equally likely to get it, so when you go and attack one of these clans the other takes advantage of the situation. This would require some well designed AI however.

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I like the idea of the player being able to gain ground in the game universe and change things. I''m looking at how this can be done using the game''s own world objects as modifiers. For instance, if you take out a fuel base, it may lower some statistic that gets calculated in the background (say economy and supply range for ships). Then, as you play, you''ll see the result in trade prices, AI movement, and subsequent available missions.



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Just waiting for the mothership...

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Original post by Kars
So you are saying that the person in power constanly changes so the laws of an area change? Guards (and the populus) would have to be constanly trained to keep up with the new laws. Wouldn''t leave much time for productive work.

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But think about this for a second. You''re assuming human psychology, which tends toward stability. Everything I''ve studied from psychology to anthropology to sociology suggests that humans feel most comfortable in a society of known rules.

Yet there are humans that survive in realms of constantly shifting rules and relationships. Entrepreneurs are one example, as are possibly spies. The fashion world also changes rapidly and endlessly, with no real concern for logic.

You''re also assuming a level of legal complexity akin to our own. Instead, consider that we may be a civilization of lawyers, and that we don''t have to have as many laws as we have today. Evidence for this is that we''ve lived under more simple legal systems, if for no better reason than they weren''t invented yet!

Kovaunn society is more of a "might makes right" society. Rather than tens of thousands of laws, they probably have a combination of base edicts that are somewhat universal (don''t become corrupt, attack your enemy when weak, keep your friends close and your enemies closer) and rule by the gun. This would create instability, but such chaos might be how they expect life should be lived (especially if they had Social Darwinist philosophies about strength, survival and life)

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You could also go the route that the race is semi-nomadic, travaling around with her harem in an attempt to get more men. In this case the laws would be traveling with the group (with miner changes ever now and then).

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Actually, I didn''t mention this, but I do see them as fleet based and traveling on planets in migrating ATV buildings. (This implies that city layouts could change, too).

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As for the information network..... Why would it inform you of upcoming changes?

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Combat is ritualized. So formal competitions would be held in a laddering system among the competiting groups, with backstabbing a way to keep Kovaunn factions sharp. As a ritualized system, you plan things in advance, so it could very well be common knowledge as to which two big heavies are about to fight it out.

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Or even if it did, why would it be at all accurate based on the fact that betraials can happen at any time to anyone?

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You can''t back down from a challenge, but you can rig the challenge in your favor.

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The information network could be more of a news boardcast: "It is now leagle to trade humans as slaves but only to Kovaunn Executrix''s with a status higher than 2", or "Planet Renvardi has just been captured by House Hurg swron enamy of all humans", "Quarts crystals are now banned. Any cargo transport that currently has quarts crystals has two days to leave."etc.

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This could definitely work after the fact, but that''s got to go in for all races / empires anyway. This one''ll just be updated more often.

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So your mission could change drasticly if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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Exactly.



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Just waiting for the mothership...

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Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
As long as I get to be Yojimbo, I''m all for it.

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There''ll be a heavy battleship Yojimbo reserved just for you!

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Just waiting for the mothership...