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A longwinded beef with 'sweet' games

Started by March 15, 2004 03:30 PM
21 comments, last by greghay 20 years, 10 months ago
AP: Your remark about choose-your-own-adventures made me dig out one of my old Lone Wolf books. As I remembered; they''re really pretty good (especially if you cheat at combat ). If I could recreate that level of interactivity in a game, I would be a happy designer indeed.

On to what I meant to say originally. There''s never been a medium as flexible as video games before. What defines a game? I would say interactivity, but that''s a meager enough thing to categorize a medium by. It admits equally of story and twitch-happy violence; the TLJs and the Q3As of the gaming world, plot-motivated and twitch-based, novel-like single player experiences and multiplayer environments that extract much of their continuing novelty from the presence of other human beings, in much the same way board games or sports like paintball do.

What I''m getting at is that neither of these extremes is somehow "right"; indeed, now and again you come across a game where they coexist peacefully (I would cite ONI or any of the Zelda zeries). It is probably true that games falling closer to TLJ''s end of the continuum are more likely to be considered works of art--at least by people capable of considering ANY game artistic--but that in no way invalidates the worth of the games clustered around the other end of the pole, the sports games and the fighters and the fps''s. They simply have different agendas.

For my part, it is the story end of the spectrum that fascinates most. I thought FFX was brilliantly artistic--like walking through an exquisite painting; no less a valid aesthetic experience than a traditional painting. When I first started reading avidly, in fourth grade or so, I yearned, as many young readers do, to somehow project myself into the story. Not to supplant the plot but rather to find in all the inevitable nooks and crannies that inhabit any story of nontrivial complexity, the opportunity to have some positive effect. An impact.

The experience I imagine doesn''t need to attempt to duplicate the collaborative rewards of pen-and-paper roleplaying, nor does it need to provide pie-in-the-sky AI to dynamically create stories of human interest. It just needs to provide a choose-your-own-adventure level of interactivity (which is far more than most games'', even RPGs), to give the player the traditional gratifications of a good yarn, along with the additional sense of having had an affect on the story.

I know all that is a good deal harder than I made it sound (I know from experience that scripting up a NWN module with even a modest amount of player-impact is a formidable task indeed). However, I don''t think it is too hard. Certainly well within the limits of ordinary human artifice. The question is more whether anyone will think it worth the trouble to go to that much effort when the potential financial remuneration for the project is less than certain.
-david
quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster

My thoughts are more along the lines of an interactive documentry.... Or a an african warlord with a child army


This kind of themed simulation / game eliminates much of the need for pre-canned dialogue that plagues other attempts at interactive drama. It could be thought provoking ie. imagine trying to run a health care centre in the middle of Africa with almost no money to pay the staff.. um? Or a WW2 trench warfare simulation. Games where you cannot do a "perfect" job, there are always real world problems. And the human cost could be rubbed in via sound or newspaper headlines.
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I''m with the people that play games for gameplay and not plot. Although there have been many game plots that I have enjoyed, even the most exceptional game plots would make mediocre movies or books.

quote:

greghay
Two examples of this mess, one that did it right and one that did it wrong, are Metal Gear Solid for the original playstation and Ninja Gaiden for the Xbox. Meal Gear had depth and intrigue; the characters were more than bodies to shoot and hands to put guns in. The story had twists and the cut-scenes were rewarding to watch. On the other hand the newly released Ninja Gaiden has none of this. It works only because of its graphics, unfortunately the story can, and is, easily skipped. The characters, men with muscles and women with breasts, are exactly that and nothing more.


You''re saying one game design philosophy is better than another. I would say that Ninja Gaiden works not because of the graphics, which are nice but not the primary reason why the game is good, but because of the gameplay. The gameplay is fun, fast and rewarding and requires a decent amount of skill.
quote:

Muse
The experience I imagine doesn''t need to attempt to duplicate the collaborative rewards of pen-and-paper roleplaying, nor does it need to provide pie-in-the-sky AI to dynamically create stories of human interest. It just needs to provide a choose-your-own-adventure level of interactivity (which is far more than most games'', even RPGs), to give the player the traditional gratifications of a good yarn, along with the additional sense of having had an affect on the story.


There is an entire genre of games like this called visual novels. The thing is, you can''t really get any of these in English (well, except some hentai\porn games) and the plots probably don''t rise above your standard anime fair (which can be good or bad.) In my opinion Choose Your Own Adventure books aren''t interactive enough and your average RPG does offer a lot more gameplay. Even something like Final Fantasy is more interactive (although the plot is more linear.) When you say choose your own adventure gives you more interactivity than most games do you mean it gives you more plot branches than most games?

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