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Original post by Iron Chef Carnage What''s the word on that new Jet Li game? It should try to do something fairly sophisticated in this direction, but I don''t know anyone that''s tried it.
That control scheme seemed interesting. I haven''t played the game either but according to gamespot...
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Fighting and shooting are the two types of scenarios you''ll encounter in Rise to Honor. Most of the game is focused on hand-to-hand combat, so you''re usually pitted against several foes at the same time. Much like Microsoft''s fairly recent Xbox game Grabbed by the Ghoulies, you''ll move around with the left analog stick, and you''ll attack by pushing the right analog stick in the direction of your opponent. Constant tapping will execute combos, and you can tap in different directions to attack multiple foes with one combo. In addition to this, you can block attacks, counter attacks, and pull off slow-motion combos (that feature more impressive attacks) by spending some of the juice on your adrenaline meter. The combat works well by handling the multiple-attackers-thing without resorting to any sort of lock-on requirement. But even with breakable environments and some objects that can be used as weapons, the combat feels overly simplified and really gets old fast. You''ll see the same combos again and again, and the enemy AI isn''t really interesting at all.
Sounds like the game is lacking in too many other areas for the directional attacks to work. Maybe if you combined this with a better fighting engine it would work out better? Gamespot gave the game a 6.6 btw, which is basically in line with the games average.
I agree that 3rd person is a preference over 1st person atm and that for proper melee we could do with a new input device.
Putting together what you guys said. What about a 3rd person system where the numbers 1-9 control your "stance". A stance is a preset choice of weapons/actions (e.g. the player may have set 1 to be left knife hand and right front kick).
If he holds down the left mouse button then the left knife hand would perform a block, (alternative for the right mouse button is a block with the right leg/hand/weapon/etc).
A double click with either button would perform an offensive action.
Taking it one more level. Perhaps the player can define the specific movement of the fist/weapon/kick while setting the stances (i.e. create his own animation or attack style) so the player can experiance their custom attacks/blocks. Or if too complicated control the speed/strength of the attacks.
[edited by - DragonWolf on February 19, 2004 10:24:23 PM]
That sounds hellishly complex, but if you could get it to work, it might be sweet.
This reminds me of three things. The first is Mark of Kri. That had a kick-ass melee combat system, complete with multiple targets, awesome special moves, a variety of weapons, and slo-mo attacks. It had its downsides, but was really sweet overall. It used a targetting system, and had three attack buttons. You could target guys for each button, or you could just target one or two guys and use the "dead" button as a combo modifier.
The second thing it reminds me of is True Crime. There were three "modes" that you could be in: walking around, kung-fu, and gunfighting. You could switch between them at will, and it would automatically switch in certain situations (like when you get punched in the face).
The third factor in this revelation is Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance. It had two styles of fighting and one weapon assigned to eat character, so for instance Johnny Cage has Karate, Jeet Kun Do (the standard Bruce Lee clone, found in every fighting game) and Nunchaku, and could switch from one to another with the L2 button (I think). Weapons were more powerful, but you took more damage when using them, so they weren''t always the best idea.
My idea is a hybrid between these three. First, I would take the combo system from Mark of Kri, and modify it a little. I''d get rid of the targetting, and use the "two sticks" system that Rise to Honor seems to employ, with one or two "modifier" buttons (maybe the L and R buttons) for more complex and devastating combos. Next, I''d incorporate the "quick switch" of control styles from True Crime. Have one or two hand-to-hand "styles" (a la Mortal Kombat), which feature different moves, and have the gun-fighting style, and maybe also a melee weapon style, so you''ve got kung fu, judo, a pistol and a short sword, and you switch between them using the D-pad.
This way, you avoid the staleness that Gamespot found in Rise to Honor, you get deep, engaging, but frenetic gameplay, and you can take the lethality of your actions into account, which is also a feature in True Crime. If you kill people that you could have incapacitated, you get a bad rating.
So, you get into a level, start out with some Kung-Fu butt whuppin'', with Judo thrown in for the tighter spaces, and then when the knives and chains come out you can either pop the proverbial cap or save your ammo by using your Hissatsu. Stealth, diversions, etc. are all valid, but not totally relevant, so I''ve neglected those.
I''m thinking of using a system that concentrates more on blocking that attacking.
Rather than a combo coming from a sequence of button presses by the player, it comes from a sequence of carefully blocked attacks by you or your opponent.
I should be able to reduce the interface down to just attack, block, movement, crouch and jump. With the player postion and timing being the important factors when trying to achieve a combo.
I don''t know if will work, its just an idea, but a simple and fun inface seems to be essential to any game.
For me the combat system used in The Two Towers and The Return of the King was simple yet effective. In order to kill enemies fast the best combo move relied on a parry followed by a kill move (button). I could see this extended to allow other combos as the result of blocks as StaticVoid is thinking.
Prince of Persia: Sands of Time had a fairly nice combat system (despite attracting some criticism) - at least it got a big wow out of me for the first few fights before I spotted how the underlying move selection works and realised how limited it really is. The ability to rewind if you get into trouble could make up for much worse than the actual problems (the usual camera angle problems and the occasional misdirected attack). Anyway, the actual combat works (on PS2) by using the left stick to move around as usual, and to designate the direction of your next attack. R1 is block, Triangle uses the Dagger of Time to freeze, destroy or attack an opponent depending on how far through the game you are, and the enemy''s status. Square is a standard attack, which depending on your situation is either a sword stroke or a kick. Cross acts as a maneuver command - rolling or backflipping through empty space or running up and over an enemy (some enemies will knock you down if you try) leaving them open to a devastating combo. Attacks vary - a sword stroke if you are close and the opponent is on-side a kick to the off-side or rear if you are still recovering from a sword stroke, and an acrobatic flip, roll or lunge against an opponent at medium range (particularly when trying to finish a downed opponent with the Dagger). As I said, it''s all pretty simple, but the animations are very nice, and the choice of action by context was well thought out during the design, so the combat feels a lot more fluid than it could be - for the first couple of fights, you could almost be watching a martial arts movie.
