I wish the schools here in Finland would teach us to debate like they do in the USA.

I have to say this, you guys are smart. Definitely, both of you could probably mouth me off any day about something. I didn’t really expect a heated debate like this, but oh well - I just feel bad my initial post did not have so much effort put into it (I was bored and wanted to talk about something) as most of these posts do.

Oluseyi, you are right and I now agree with what you counter-agree with me on. I still think that, if I want to squeeze every bit of performance and configurability out of something, then I will compile it from source. I totally agree that it is somewhat time consuming and counterproductive, but that is what I would do. You might not like that, but you are entitled to you’re opinion. Thank you for clearing some things up, you obviously know more about this then me and I take you’re word as a learning.

Your welcome, and thank you (for the compliments).

quote: Original post by Oluseyi
First, a question: What do you think of Novell''s purchase of SuSE, and how do you think that will affect Linux development (do you think we''ll see any nifty NetWare stuff come across)?

Novell doesn''t have a good track-record for tight integration like Microsoft does (with regard to business acquisitions, not techincal capabilities). I think all of thier new holdings will remain largely independant, sales will will "less than predicted" and in within two years they will be sold or liquidated. They still only have two interesting technologies, NDS & NSS (Novell Storage Services, the latest file-system). They have some product (DirectyOne?) for Linux that I think is basically NDS for Linux, but NSS runs on the Netware kernel only.
It would interesting if NSS is made available on Linux, but I think the technological barriers are strong fields.

quote:

quote: I run Gentoo in my virtual vmware linux machine at work, run Gentoo on our developers linux server, and use Gentoo to build our embedded linux targets.

Are the embedded targets Gentoo themselves, or do you simply use Gentoo as a build/deployment environment for the embedded targets? In my estimation there is no single distribution that can cover the entire spectrum of possible Linux deployment targets from embedded platforms to PCs to big iron. Your thoughts?

Well, what is a Gentoo system, other than one that was built using portage? The SBC targets don''t have kernel source, gcc, python, perl, portage, etc... on them, but we can still use portage (and NFS) to install stuff on them from other PCs.

I''d have to agree that no distro spans from No MMU to Cluster, but also say Gentoo spans the greatest range. The other thing to realize about Gentoo, is they don''t tie you to a kernel. You can emerge and build the RedHat kernel, the vanilla kernel, and hopefully in the near future the Arm7tdmi uCLinux kernel.

quote:
Incidentally, embedded platforms are the one target where it not only makes sense but is pretty much required to compile from source. If Gentoo makes that a priority (logical, given their leaning towards source), then that''s a very smart decision.

Yes, it''s also a rather difficult thing thing to do (without a hitch), so I have some reservations about it taking off (but am hoping for the best). The vision is Gentoo on the desktop, server, iPaq, PlayStation2, and GameBoy (Arm7dtmi).

quote: Installing Gentoo reminds of those build-your-own dirt bike shops. <snip>

I find that analogy slightly tenuous, still. The hidden assumption is possession of the necessary skill to truly "build your own" distro, not merely following instructions (which wouldn''t work with a dirt bike; you need to know what you''re doing - ditto PCs).
Well not really, you just put the stuff where it fits, and the complicated parts come pre-assemblied. Putting it together is how you build the knowledge and competence so that you do know what you''re doing - Catch 22?

quote: Original post by Magmai Kai Holmlor
Novell doesn''t have a good track-record for tight integration like Microsoft does (with regard to business acquisitions, not techincal capabilities). I think all of thier new holdings will remain largely independant, sales will will "less than predicted" and in within two years they will be sold or liquidated. They still only have two interesting technologies, NDS & NSS (Novell Storage Services, the latest file-system). They have some product (DirectyOne?) for Linux that I think is basically NDS for Linux, but NSS runs on the Netware kernel only.
It would interesting if NSS is made available on Linux, but I think the technological barriers are strong fields.

+5, Insightful.

quote: Well, what is a Gentoo system, other than one that was built using portage? The SBC targets don''t have kernel source, gcc, python, perl, portage, etc... on them, but we can still use portage (and NFS) to install stuff on them from other PCs.

I''d have to agree that no distro spans from No MMU to Cluster, but also say Gentoo spans the greatest range. The other thing to realize about Gentoo, is they don''t tie you to a kernel. You can emerge and build the RedHat kernel, the vanilla kernel, and hopefully in the near future the Arm7tdmi uCLinux kernel.

It''s an exciting prospect, but also a daunting one. The variances in hardware platform and application needs suggest to me that the final products will be similar mostly in cosmetics and branding - kinda like Windows CE/PowerPC to Windows to Windows Server.

quote: Yes, it''s also a rather difficult thing thing to do (without a hitch), so I have some reservations about it taking off (but am hoping for the best). The vision is Gentoo on the desktop, server, iPaq, PlayStation2, and GameBoy (Arm7dtmi).

Feasibility is questionable, like you say. But I''d love to watch them try!

quote: Well not really, you just put the stuff where it fits, and the complicated parts come pre-assemblied. Putting it together is how you build the knowledge and competence so that you do know what you''re doing - Catch 22?

Absolutely Catch 22.

quote: Original post by aftermath
First of all, sorry about the formatting. I wrote this in vim. If you dont have anything good to say, then please keep it to yourself

I would just like to rant a bit about Gentoo and the concept of compiling your
software. I have installed Gentoo successfully from my first try, all thanks to
the documentation - very on-topic and straightforward - and some help from the
folks in #gentoo. I don''t understand why people think and assume that compiling
your own software from source (like using Gentoo emerge to do so) makes it more
unstable and/or slower.

People think that gentoo makes their system faster, not slower. Most people, like me, complain about gentoo because it is slower to install. What''s fun about installing a distro that takes 3 days to compile, install and configure the base system and then 3 more days to compile install and configure all the apps needed for a system. With any other distro, I can be up and running in a matter of about +/- 30 minutes, and all I had to do was select the right packages( or apt-get or urpmi them from a base system, in my case ) then tweak the installation for another 30 minutes to get everything the way I like it and finally, I''m up and running. Sure the apps are not compiled for my system precisely but the gain in speed of execution is so minimal that it won''t change a thing. Trust me, I''ve seen my share of Distros and they are all roughly the same, if you know how to configure and install a distro the right way. Installing a distro is easy, installing just the right things and having only the right services is another thing.



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