First of all, sorry about the formatting. I wrote this in vim. If you dont have anything good to say, then please keep it to yourself I would just like to rant a bit about Gentoo and the concept of compiling your software. I have installed Gentoo successfully from my first try, all thanks to the documentation - very on-topic and straightforward - and some help from the folks in #gentoo. I don''t understand why people think and assume that compiling your own software from source (like using Gentoo emerge to do so) makes it more unstable and/or slower. Some of you think that Gentoo is frustrating to install, maintain, and use. I would like to argue against that. If you follow the documentation, step-by-step and do exactly what you are told to do so, then you will end up with a fully working gentoo setup. I, on the other hand, had to be even more careful because I am dual-booting with Windows XP on my first primary NTFS partition. Nothing too hard, I just used common sense. Instead of deleting all of my partitions (like the handbook advises,) I created an extended partition in the free space left on my hard drive. Not so hard. Common sense, its all about that. In esence, installing Gentoo was a breeze. I have never before installed a Linux distro where I was required to compile the kernel. Now I can say I have Portage is probably the best concept of managing software that was ever made. I use FreeBSD on my server, and managing software (updating, un installing, reinstalling) using the Ports Collection is extremely easy. Most of the installation of software is automated. Using emerge is very easy too. If I want to update all of my software: emerge -Upv world Review what will be updated, installed, and configure that using the USE variable USE="mmx sse -cups" emerge -Upv world Once I am happy with the software selections, I remove the `-pv'' flags and hit enter. I go get some coffee, something to eat, and come back to a freshly updated system. How wonderful is that? Portage is truly the heart of Gentoo, and the prime of (IMHO) all software/package managers. Yes, I have used Debian, Slackware, RedHat and I just find that they do not stack up against what Gentoo''s Portage offers me. Now, compiling your own software. I use emerge to install almost (if not all) of the software on my desktop computer. Some of you think that if software is installed from source form, and not from a pre-compiled binary version (like from a .deb or .rpm file) then it is 1) slower and 2) less stable. I have to argue against that. When you are installing from package form, and not from source form, do you actually think that some special ultra-optimization techneque was used to compile the software? Dont you think that the author/creator of the deb/rpm probobly used general compiling procedures when making the binary? Dont you think that is is better for you to compile your own software when you can select optimization based on your archetecture and processor features? Sorry, but I dont understand how one can think that compiling software from source is anything but better then installing it from pre-compiled packages. Someone please, enlighten me on this. This is not a flame, but an observation. I dont aim to prove Gentoo Linux to be better then any other distro. All of the distributions that I have tried all have their pros and cons. Gentoo pleases me more then anything else, and I find it hard to understand why someone would find it so bad and hard to use. Wow, once again my fingers have gone lose on me. I am going to get some more coffee now, and get somthing to eat while I update xfree Good day. Any thaughts on this? I know its a long read, but if you have the time and the will to discus, then I am all ears

I used gentoo linux and I compiled my own version, and it was a great experience. I didnt have any problems getting a fully working install. It was my first time compiling something of the size. Gentoo is my linux flavor by choice now, I did some tests and it ran faster, mainly because I picked what I wanted installed and my OS wasnt bloated.

I think the emerge is just sweat, and this makes linux so much easier then any other flavor out there.

Thats all I am going to say!

Enjoy Gentoo!

Compiling that stuff takes time. I figure "What''s the point?" The source is there if I want it , and someone''s already compiled it, why not just use his results and save myself a bit of time and wattage?

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quote: Original post by aftermath
Any thaughts on this? I know its a long read, but if you have the time and the will to discuss, then I am all ears...

Discuss what? The merits of a compilation-based install? The pros and cons of packaging vs source? The maintainability of a source-based distro (which you didn''t mention and therefore cannot be the topic of discussion).

I''ve never used Gentoo. I probably never will. Spending hours to get a system up and running makes no sense to me; if I''m going to compile from scratch, you know I''m building a custom deployment - and I''ll be rolling it out onto several machines, perhaps across a network. See, compiling your distro and all your applications has no merit when you''re productivity-oriented. There''s a reason why dpkg (apt-get) and RPM were invented...

For beginners, compilation is daunting (especially for non-programmers). For home users/consumers, it''s an inneffective install method, taking longer and requiring more steps than the "insert CD, answer prompts" style they''ve probably been accustomed to under Windows.

Most critically, though, it''s a lot of work on a low-impact area. We need more applications. We need better desktop interop. We need more GUI/RAD tools. Not a new way to deploy already-stable kernels.

Cha-ching! That''ll be two cents...

Mind you Gentoo provides Pre-compiled downloads, along with shipping options for cd''s. Then it also has the dl and compile option, you would do this if you wanted the most speed out of the OS that you wanted, and all that crap out of your OS that you dont want. Yes it does take time to compile but in the end you can always save your compiled files to CD or the main compiles, but the point is you get the latest versions of all your software, or you can pick what version you wish to have. Gentoo is the only distro that provides awsome file management "Portage". This is the best part of this distro. You can update/remove/install new or old versions of software. Without thinking about breaking your system. You dont have to fix any problems that happen when you remove them yourself, this does it for you. You want a new version of xxxx application, but dont want to hunt for it just put in the command and hoah it will prepair your system for the software(finds all the dependencies that is needed for the application, it will dl those and your program of choice, then it will compile and install everything.

I realise this is probably the exception rather than the rule, but installing Gentoo on my box (from stage2, if anyone''s interested) actually took less time than installing Windows XP. Probably due to not taking an hour to format my hard disk.

I''ve used Gentoo for the past month, without a hitch. It''s a solid distro. However, I don''t believe portage is the answer to everything. No matter the package management system, there are always drawbacks, ie. excessive compile times (yes, I realize you can `emerge -G pkgname`) or unwanted dependancies. If you like the portage system, then by all means use it.

Now that we''ve established that I don''t have anything AGAINST Gentoo, I''ll let you know why I don''t forsee it being installed again in the near future.

As an avid linux user, I''ve become accustomed to doing things myself, ie. compiling the base system from scratch, updating system libraries, re-compiling my compiler so I can compile a compiler for a custom scripting language (say that 3 times fast... heh) and I have found myself slowly losing productivity. Now, as someone who loves to customize everything, I''ve got to hand it to Microsoft with their "follow the prompts and everything will be alright" style. Not because its any easier to use, but because it''s automated, and therefore faster. In this industry, time IS money, and the more of both I can save the happier I''ll be.

That said, I''m finding myself leaning more towards FreeBSD. For my purposes, it''s fitting the bill quite well. I don''t have to compile packages from source if I don''t want to (I got sick of seeing placeholder files on gentoo mirrors for GRP) but I always have the choice. Instead of portage, I get what (I think) helped inspire it. Ports. Now once again, staying in line with what I said at the begining, Ports isn''t the answer to everything either, but it is more mature than the relatively young gentoo portage tree. In theory it has a lot of the same benefits, and a lot of the same pitfalls, but it''s working out better in practice.

I''ll be keeping an eye on Gentoo to see it again when it matures a bit. Until then, I''m still seeking a Linux distro, and using FreeBSD.

Dos centavos


DracosX:

Master of the General Protection Fault

quote: Original post by Dalik
Mind you Gentoo provides Pre-compiled downloads, along with shipping options for cd''s.

Which makes it just like all the other distros.

quote: Then it also has the dl and compile option, you would do this if you wanted the most speed out of the OS that you wanted, and all that crap out of your OS that you dont want. Yes it does take time to compile but in the end you can always save your compiled files to CD or the main compiles, but the point is you get the latest versions of all your software, or you can pick what version you wish to have.

This is a popular misconception. There is a very small portion of code that sees a signficant performance increase from being compiled for a specific machine architecture; in most cases, the generic family-compiled executable is fast enough.

Furthermore, the emergence of JIT compilation suggests that the "benefits" of the Gentoo system can be achieved with less hassle for more users (once again, automated).

quote: Gentoo is the only distro that provides awsome file management "Portage".

Uh, dpkg. You know, the one known as apt-get? And that''s just for Linux. BSD has ports (where''d you think the name "portage" came from?) SuSE''s YaST2 even makes RPM very robust, and then there''s apt-rpm... You shouldn''t say things that you can''t back up.

Gentoo is probably a solid distro. And nothing more.

Bingo. Couldn''t have said it better myself, and I tried, :D


DracosX:

Master of the General Protection Fault

I''ve never tried it because its advocates are usually much worse than this. ( and I consider even this annoying )

I kinda have the same problem with BSD. Except I tried that, and liked it. mostly. except the kernel. and those people.

*huggles his linux kernel and dpkg*