Qoy, I read a Carmack interview, and he said that Quake 3 has only some small ASM routines from Quake 1. And if you look to the Quake 1 source code you''ll see that the majority of the ASM code is for software rendering. Since Quake 3 doesn''t use SW, there''s almost no ASM in it.

Stoffel, You were right... I put it on Release Mode and it had switched it back to debug by itself.. when i went to check it a second time it was on debug, and since ive never ever worked with VC's ASM output, I didn't know that THAT was an output compiled in debug mode... anyways.. thanks for letting me know how to get the optimized (REAL) ASM code...

quote:
you daft fool

let's not get to name calling.. aight? for one no body's perfect... and when you know something that I DONT KNOW then you shouldn't act like a cocky fool just 'cuz of that... just think about your behavior and the way you're acting...

If anyone has any other comments ill be more than glad to hear them... just dont start with me on name calling...

At least somebody learned something knew today... heh.. that's what it's all about.. making mistakes and learning from them all the time...

im out.....

-------------------------------
That's just my 200 bucks' worth!

..-=gLaDiAtOr=-..

Edited by - Gladiator on July 25, 2000 10:04:15 AM

I''m glad to see this got cleared up quite nicely

The Visual Studio compiler is pretty good at straightforward optimisation - you shouldn''t worry about it too much.


Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.

Alright, I''m sorry about the name calling. I get a little peeved when people go off half-cocked about things. It wasn''t so much the original post that bothered me, as it was the other people joining in and saying, "Yeah, Microsoft sucks, yeah!"

I feel that lately, in this forum, there''s just a lot of incorrect information going around. It''s really starting to get on my nerves, but you''re right--my tone didn''t help much. I''ll try to be more positive next time.

Frankly, I would prefer that posts like the original and some of the parrot posts that followed, got burned at the stake!

We all could use a good burn once and a while...make us think before posting ignorant drivel (much like this post ..! )

quote:
"Yeah, Microsoft sucks, yeah!"

in fact it does... but that''s not why i posted this question... and still, many people have said it and i will repeat it again... you cant replace the hand optimized assembly with the compiler''s WORK OF ART (yeah rrrriiiighhhtt)... meaning the post is not ignorant and still serves it''s purpose... i made a mistake by not getting the code, but that code can be optimized EVEN MORE, so stop complaining about me posting such a post and get a life...

-------------------------------
That's just my 200 bucks' worth!

..-=gLaDiAtOr=-..

quote:
Frankly, I would prefer that posts like the original and some of the parrot posts that followed, got burned at the stake!

Franly, I would prefer that Anonymous Posters were disabled, so they can''t hide when they post such stupid comments! I don''t know why people are afraid to reveal their identity when they say what they really THINK about someone else''s opinion, but don''t hide have the usual opinions as everyone else. That has been bothering me quite a bit. If I want to say something I WILL say it, no matter what everyone thinks about it. It''s MY opinion so you don''t have to agree with it.

Plus, this forum is for learning reasons and MOST of the info is partialy or completely inaccurate, unless it comes out of Witchlord, or MadKeithV''s mouths. Then I know it''s ABSOLUTELY correct, otherwise I''m most likely to disagree with some people who think they GOT the FACTS!!! The point is, if you don''t agree with what I say, either flame me, and I''ll flame you back, or just ignore what I''m saying. Or if you explain what I''ve messed up nicely to me, I''m willing to listen and learn!! Otherwise, just forget about it... That''s all I wanted to say... Now it''s your turn people... Because I''m sure some people will disagree with me... Have a go on this thread (and don''t hide your identity no matter what you say...)

-------------------------------
That's just my 200 bucks' worth!

..-=gLaDiAtOr=-..

Gladiator, I think I''m finally starting to understand you...
and I must say it''s pleasing.

I understand your frustration, but try to remain patient with people that flame. I have to do the same, and it''s not always easy.
I think it was a pretty big investment of effort on your part to disassemble the VC++ code and pick it apart - you didn''t know about debug vs. release so it kindof blew up in your face for a second, but you do know now.
I also know that from now on, you WILL know about debug vs. release, and if you ever discuss VC++''s generated assembly again, you''ll have a very accurate idea of what happens.

To everyone in this thread:
Nobody is perfect, there''s no need to be inconsiderate about it. I''ve made mistakes, and so will you. Stay civil about it, and learn from them. Don''t bash others because they didn''t know something you think is obvious, most of the time it''s not as obvious as you think.


Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.

Hi there,

i am coding for almost 20 years now and i am still learning day by day. The first and important thing i make clear in every kick off meeting of a new project is, that all team members must respect the other ones. The art of project management is not to bash people to the ground, but to motivate them and get the best out of them, make them fly. People who start bashing on others are not very welcome in the industry, even if they are as inteligent as Einstein and Zuse together, because what we need are team players and not solofighters.

My experience with the different available compilers are that Watcom C++ does the best optimizations because it does not only use the "peephole" optimization approach. That means it does not only look at the current command but also analyzes the code around the command to make decisions. The compiler gives also a lot of switches to configure the way of optimizations. (unroll loops etc.)

What i would really want to know is, what compilers are currently used by id, blizzard and westwood ?

cu

Peter

Gamasutra features "postmortems" from game designers. You can find it here:
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/index_postmortems.htm
You can generally find the tools used for development on the last page of each article.

C&C Tiberian Sun (since you asked about Westwood) was done using MSVC++.

I didn''t notice any other postmortems from companies you mentioned. But at a glance:

Myth was developed with Codewarrior (they''re Mac people), but the PC port was done with MSVC++ (though only done in C).

Thief: The Dark Project: MSVC++, Watcom C++

System Shock 2: MSVC++

Age of Empires 2: "Visual C++" (MS?)

Unreal Tournament: "Microsoft Visual Studio"

Drakan: Order of the Flame: MSVC++ 5.0 and 6.0

Those are just the ones I looked at. Maybe you''ll find some if you look that don''t use Microsoft.

(but remember, Microsoft sucks)