To start off I haven''t been doing anything with programming within the last 3 years . I came up with this idea back in late 2000 to make an open source game with the concept of "The Sims" although with better AI and a massive city all wrapped up with a first person view and online capability :o. It was named "Your Life" and just like many open source projects it crumbled before it even started. This was mainly because I was a 15 year old at the time who let my excitement get to me. I also got caught up with school and some music projects. Now I''m 18 and the idea of this game came back to me. I actually have much better knowledge of C++ now (I was trying to code the game in VB at the time which would be TOO slow). So yesterday I wrote this little introduction to the reason I want to make it and what it features should have. I''m planning to start coding a small framework for the graphics, gui(all original gui engine of course) and sound routines first. Of course I will need help on a project like this (people of all ages are welcome ). So please give me constructive feedback and ideas. Go To: http://myriadprod.tripod.com/interactive/ditl_gamedesigndoc.htm

quote: Original post by lkd85
...just like many open source projects it crumbled before it even started. This was mainly because I was a 15 year old at the time who let my excitement get to me.

Nope.

quote: Now I''m 18 and the idea of this game came back to me. I actually have much better knowledge of C++ now (I was trying to code the game in VB at the time which would be TOO slow). So yesterday I wrote this little introduction to the reason I want to make it and what it features should have. I''m planning to start coding a small framework for the graphics, gui(all original gui engine of course) and sound routines first. Of course I will need help on a project like this (people of all ages are welcome ). So please give me constructive feedback and ideas.

The reason tons of Open Source projects fail is because the people who start them (yes, that means YOU) do not understand Open Source.

Pay attention. You may have that academic comprehension of what Open Source is: "An approach to software development and other collaborative works that leverages the global community of developers to deliver superior product." Yeah, whatever. The question is whether you understand why Open Source works. What are the prerequisites to establishing a successful Open Source project? What are the properties of successful Open Source projects?

Every Open Source that has succeeded has been announced when there was code to show. It may be extremely rudimentary, but there is no foundation upon which to contribute in the absence of code. I can''t think of any exemption to the rule, and if there was one it would probably have been started by someone with a reputation for successful projects.

The moral: "Show Me The Code.""Talk Is Cheap." "Ideas Are A Dime A Dozen."

Might I suggest reading Eric Raymond''s book (the entire book - a collection of essays, not just the essay), The Cathedral and the Bazaar. In particular pay attention to his analysis of when and how to go Open Source.

Good luck!

You're right about talk being cheap. In fact that was my main problem. People won't be willing to help as much if you don't have product to show them. But for this game It will be nice to have a group of people into this kind of genre to help me lift off the ground in the beginning stages. In fact I still would like to hear others ideas.

[edited by - lkd85 on January 18, 2004 10:26:19 PM]

quote: Original post by lkd85
But for this game It will be nice to have a group of people into this kind of genre to help me lift off the ground in the beginning stages.

Of course it would be nice. It would be nice to have a quality graphic artist, musician and level designer all willing to work on this unproven, unseen project. It would be nice to have a killer rig for development. It would be nice to have a Merc McLaren (no, seriously, it would be niiiiiiice!)

But will it happen? Delusion is a strange thing (and I''m not trying to discourage you). Take a look in the Help Wanted forum at a lot of other scenarios that would be "nice". Experience, contrary to the saying, isn''t the best teacher; the experiences of others are. Like many of the thread starters there, you fail to really communicate your qualifications. You fail to show completed projects (no matter how small) that demonstrate ability, not just abstract and purported "knowledge":

<TheMatrix>
Neo(phyte): I know C++.
Morpheus: Show me.
</TheMatrix>

quote: In fact I still would like to hear others ideas.

Of course. And you''ll find people who think the idea is cool, and you''ll form a group and maybe create a SourceForge project (wasting precious resources) and there''ll be a lot of hot air and discussion and pontification and everybody''ll try to sound like they know more than they do, and ever more ambitious ideas will be circulated and the response will be "cool"... And then the fire will die down, the fervor will cool. And the project will die.

I''ve seen professionals make this mistake (Google "Indrema" one of these days, and its totally idiotic follow-up, TuxBoxProject - which was interviewed for some "Linux" publication back then). I''ve seen dozens of project ideas like this come and go, with no impact - no releases, nothing. Heck, I''ve even started one (I eventually wrote SourceForge an email asking them to reclaim my long-dormant project space, in an effort to atone for my sin - and I do consider it a sin to waste freely-given resources). Then I read and understood what Open Source was really about, why and when it worked.

But you don''t have to listen to me. Just have the honesty to come back and tell us about it when it happens.

Sounds like ''second life'' to me. Even the name is similar. But you''re on the right track, making a design document first and a framework. Many people start with the graphics, hard-code game logic in between render calls, and then find that they get stuck after a while because the concept is not flexible.

Cool. I was in fact thinking about it while I was sleeping (believe it or not). It probably would be better for me to at least code most of it myself using other model resources (converted from quake 3 files into my own file format) to show others what I've done. And once again, Oluseyi, you're right about people becoming smart asses on a project and everyone just gets pissed off at each other. I'm making another in depth design article with theories on how I approach to implement the core feature and make the people interact with the city and objects. But damn It would be nice to have at least one more programmer into AI simulations/strategies on a somewhat begginner-intermediate level so we can learn together. But hey .

Thanks for the tips.

LKD/Myriad

[edited by - lkd85 on January 19, 2004 6:25:37 PM]

One idea that i think made The Sims so popular was their use of Pictograms. People see, and understand immediatly. There is no having to read anything, there is no having to try to understand. They see that their little sim doesn''t like the tv on right away. I think this is going to be a standard in future life simulators, just like doom and wolf3d set many standards for the fps genre.

Yeah, that was tight how they used pictures to show there thoughts. However for "DITL" I'm not going to use that feature for two reasons: I want to separate "DITL" from "The Sims" as much as possible. Second, "DITL" is more of a simulator than a strategy game (even though it has strategy because the player's goal is to have a successful life). While you can interact with the computer people its a little more restrictive in how you can "control" them for they're suppose to make their own decisions. I can explain this more in detail in part 2 of my design doc.

[edited by - lkd85 on January 19, 2004 6:33:25 PM]

The site is now up on sourceforge at: https://sourceforge.net/projects/ditl

Please bear with me on the following:
***************************************************************
I probably would have posted the second game design doc today but got so busy involved in a thread defaming the idea of this game(http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=203141) by some possible 15 year old kid who said the game was a form of "escapism" and how "I" needed a life. Hmm... what a life he must have spending his days trying to beef with others over the internet, real cool.

So if u wanna know more about me read the following:

Gaming isn't even my main hobby, it's film. Also I make beats for my friends and I mixtapes
(goto http://myriadprod.tripod.com/niggasplottin.wma for a sample).


P.S. bigwiger
I also don't appreciate u callin me "kid" if I don't know u, as if I was some child in the streets. So let me calm my temper down as Mobb Deep said "Over some beef that wasn't fully cooked...-Hell On Earth".
***************************************************************
exit(Anger_Mode);

Seriously though, I plan to finish it up sometime this weekend.
It will discuss options and possible ways for ppl/object interaction. Keep those CONSTRUCTIVE opinions coming though.

LKD/Myriad,
1

http://myriadproductions.8m.com

To the moderator: Sorry about this brief moment of immaturity. It just seriously pisses me off :<.




[edited by - lkd85 on January 23, 2004 11:56:59 PM]

Today I just got an email for a person named Serdyn du Toit about what his ideas where for the game. I asked him if I can post so we can get as many people''s opinions as possible. So here''s the link:

http://myriadprod.tripod.com/interactive/serdyndutoits_ditlidea.htm


LKD/Myriad,

1

http://myriadproductions.8m.com