3rd person viewpoint as a floating ''camera''? It seems appropriate to use the 3rd person perspective as a freemoving camera (in some games). Indeed, Metal Gear Solid 2 goes so far as to implement effects such as droplets of water running down the "lens" when the player gets on to dry land. When the player is shot and killed (while looking through the 1st person perspective viewpoint), the lens "cracks". These effects seem to make the camera more ''realistic'' in my opinion. Ie. It isn''t just a floating abstract "eye". There are also effects like ''graininess'' and simulated shaky-cam that game designers can use. (Think of the Blair Witch Project movie). I believe that these kinds of choices (graininess) etc. can add to the ''feel'' of a game.

In Mario64, if you went up to a mirror, you could see the reflection of the cloud guy (Lokitu?) holding the camera that you view Mario through.

And while the game didnt have a "feel" of looking through a camera like you speak of, it was a nice touch.

Although for in most games, I don''t imagine it would make too much sense for the story to have a cameraman following around the hero.

If you watched Lakitu in the mirror, you could see that the camera was swinging from side to side on the end of his fishing rod, yet the actual in-game camera didn''t do that.

Yet the concept remains in tact. But it''s a bit strange for the game to be self-aware unless this sort of meta-perspective makes sense in the context of the game. Mario64''s implementation was well suited to a semi-comedic environment. Although the effects you describe in MGS2 sound cool, I wonder if maybe it was a bit out of place in that game, in the same sense that we might lift an eyebrow when, while watching an Hollywood film, the camera suddenly gets wet or a shadow is cast by the cameraman.

But it''s an interesting topic. There are certainly lots of cool things you could do with it. For instance I might design a dryly humorous game with some sort of movie theme to it, and when the 3rd person cam approaches a mirror or reflective surface you could actually see an entire film crew in the background. OR maybe its a spy game, and at some point you realize that all your actions are being recorded by an enemy spy robot helicoptering behind at a safe distance! Might be cool to incorporate the meta-perspective into the game itself like this.

A thought:

First Person: You play through the eyes of the hero

Third Person: You are non-existant, physically detatched from the hero

Second Person(?): You play through the eyes of a companion of the hero [in other words, a physical Cameraman]

....is this correct? If you played through the view of another character physically following the hero around, would it be a "2nd Person Game"?

The second-person idea from the previous post and something I remember Chris Crawford (I think) said somewhere that there should be games about a boy and his dog or a prostitute with a golden heart gave me the following idea:

What about a game about a boy and his dog where you control the dog, but you see it through the eyes of a boy who holds the dog on a leash. You never actually see the boy, except in cut-scenes and maybe his hands. Maybe you have some options for controlling the boy: throwing a stick or letting go of the leash temporarily or something like that.
The game could be somewhat like ICO, being about navigating your way through a big game world, filled with environmental puzzles that must be solved to progress.

In the Turok games, you pretty much stay with 1st person until you are killed. Then it switches to 3rd person view and you have an "out of body experience". I always thought that was a nice touch.

[edited by - 5010 on January 2, 2004 5:46:23 PM]

Erkki, R.A.D for the PS2 was similiar to this. It might''ve been Yet Another Giant Robot game, except for two things: You had independant controls for your robot''s arms and legs -- you literally had to do a one-two button pressing pattern in order to walk -- and second, you controlled the robot externally from your pilot''s viewpoint. (Since you just had a large remote control you carried with you to pilot the robot.) A large part of the strategy of the game was finding a clear enough vantage point to see both your giant robot and the enemy at the same time. Without getting so close you''d get stomped, or crushed under a falling building.

It was a mediocre game, at best, but due to that unique perspective I still occasionally pull it off the shelf and play it.

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[[ Gaping Wolf Software ]]

expanding on the spy game idea, what if the entire game was played by controlling your character through nsa spy cams. Bring a kind of "theres no where you can hide" idea to it. ever since i played vice city and i went into the golf course where i saw myself through a security camera, i''ve had an idea like this to make an entire game like that. Lets say its a movie based off of a story like Enemy of the state. Anywhere you go you are being watched and recorded. You allways see yourself through the perspective of the spy equipment that you are trying to avoid. Areas where you are not being watched can switch into a 3rd person mode, but in this game, to add to the unique feel of it, that 3rd person camera should rarely be used. It should be saved for areas where you want to disguise yourself. When you see yourself back on the enemies cameras again then you want to act unsuspicious.

That''d work very well in a sort of "1984 - Big Brother" environment.