i was reading post when i just realize that i was upset each time i see the word realism, there is something wrong that i couldn''t put in what''s wrong with realism?? nothing, really, but it''s fly like a buzz word which seems to limit our imagination, everything HAS to be realistic but we inherently felt that''s there is a confusion laying with the word then i have remember the distinction i made while talking in french (i''m far more limited while talking english), it was the notion of BELIEVITY did someone see chicken run or the pixar movie?? now you have the definition of believity...(toy can life??? scream made energy?? chicken can talk?? this is not reality but''s it is made beleivable) this mean that thing as not to be ''real'' but beleivable, it''s not a matter of how many detail but how to convey, it''s just a simple difference but it will help us to see more clearly what we aimed for (it is use to make difference of what we are doing in art) then while talking use believity instead of realism that''s all any two cents??? PS: how about surrealism in game? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be good be evil but do it WELL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Just don''t forget that to achieve believability you must be a student of your subject, and life in general. You must be intensely passionate about what you are trying to convey, and you must pay attention to a panapoly of details rooted in the foundations of your discipline.

Don''t, for a minute, think that by deciding believability is what you''re after rather than realism, that you can throw out the notion that you need to know and study that which is real.

yes i'm already aware of that, but expressing it in english has is effect to think it in english and share it for me
but one point to mention is about confusion of meaning

meaning is the relation we have to the world, but we don't feel the world in a separate channel, every things come link to each other, and some times we confuse the feel of an experiance with something else, the truth is that they are link to each other we supposely don't have to cut this link but it's not that simple,

as ex, i'm a visual artist student (art in general is in the cursus too), then i have a strong relation to drawing, then i tend to do abstract draw because they are the pure experiance of drawing, while other people like the drawing because the feel to have a skill to represent things, or to have a skill valuable in social interaction
all are equal valuable meaning because they are related to the one which experiance the feel

but before get into abstract i have done a lot of representation without being satisfy, because i have think that drawing was representation (eventually i have discover before hit the art school the true achievement of my expression in drawing), it's hard to overcome this because i have believe it and can't understand other belief but this one, even if it was wrong with my experiance, it was a great deal to abandon it the definition of the word to come to a true achievement, and once you find this truth it's painful, because it's so different from that you know that you don't have word to express it (truth may don't fit your belief and then you start reject it because it's not that you have been taught and this contradict the order of the world and make you unsecure and doubtful >>> once you feel that, you know that you growing up )
the attachement to value is that which blind us, and it's painful

one consequence is that the true expression of the self start to deviate from the norm and this became hard to other to see the value and the meaning of what you are doing, it's a great pain that most people can't go beyond, that's why a lot of project is full of passion but still confuse and unoriginal, they are true art in a kind but embryonic and i can understand people who don't want to suffer and keep their line in front of creativity without get beyond, the only way is to understand them and to propose them a secure area

actually my passion is video games (well my own definition) and i'm thinking to "code" a "video games" in reality space as a new culture for my island which is the secure area i want to provide to them for explore their self, yes it's not exactly video games but video games is a word, what is important is not the word but the interaction which is produce

additional link
http://www.igda.org/Forums/showthread.php?s=d5a9b96e66458610902a55aed05b0163&threadid=7917

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
be good
be evil
but do it WELL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[edited by - Neoshaman on December 12, 2003 1:57:22 AM]

quote:

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Original post by bishop_pass
You must be intensely passionate about what you are trying to convey, (...)

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I would contend that you just have to be professional and willing to work. Passion is tertiary, behind research and effort.

ld

quote:

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Original post by liquiddark

quote:

---

Original post by bishop_pass
You must be intensely passionate about what you are trying to convey, (...)

---

I would contend that you just have to be professional and willing to work. Passion is tertiary, behind research and effort.

ld

---

from experiance, it's not exactly true, passion is the fuel, something, mostly the new and the most original, need passion to be reach

EDIT: and in every activity which involve expression of a subjectivity, it's vital

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
be good
be evil
but do it WELL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[edited by - Neoshaman on December 12, 2003 10:18:18 AM]

quote:

---

Original post by Neoshaman
from experiance, it''s not exactly true, passion is the fuel, something, mostly the new and the most original, need passion to be reach

---

While I respect your opinion, I don''t agree with it. Any intelligent person can apply research and extrapolation to come up with absolutely remarkable novelty. Hence the old saying about 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration. If you have the focus to do something, it matters not whether you have the passion.

ld

quote:

---

Original post by Neoshaman
i was reading post when i just realize that i was upset each time i see the word realism, there is something wrong that i couldn''t put in

what''s wrong with realism?? nothing, really, but it''s fly like a buzz word which seems to limit our imagination, everything HAS to be realistic but we inherently felt that''s there is a confusion laying with the word

then i have remember the distinction i made while talking in french (i''m far more limited while talking english), it was the notion of BELIEVITY did someone see chicken run or the pixar movie?? now you have the definition of believity...(toy can life??? scream made energy?? chicken can talk?? this is not reality but''s it is made beleivable)

this mean that thing as not to be ''real'' but beleivable, it''s not a matter of how many detail but how to convey, it''s just a simple difference but it will help us to see more clearly what we aimed for (it is use to make difference of what we are doing in art)

then while talking use believity instead of realism that''s all

any two cents???

PS: how about surrealism in game?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
be good
be evil
but do it WELL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

---

If I translated right, that everything in a "game" should be believable (not realistic per say but believable), then I''m with you all the way.

Finally…someone agrees.


"Do not flame people you don''t know in a public forum. Only amateurs do that. Professionals in the industry know they will run into each other over and over. The person you flame this year may the person you want to do business with next year. Don''t burn your bridges," (Diana Gruber, http://www.makegames.com/chapt6.html).

then i will refering to the first and the second theorem of imcompletude of kurt gödel
the first show that logic alone can''t lead to some assertion, some are non decidable
the second say that to resolve logic paradox we have to go beyond the system of logic
passion CAN be this kind of "program" which help us see beyond the possibilty of a system and try new way to think, a logical person would end the seek because the problem don''t fit his domain of knowledge, a passionate person would create a new system to make sense of his goal (metaposition)

most of evolution of science come from such of person, and that''s why computer actually don''t create, they has no escape from their program (art, kabbal, chineese dialectic, hindu and zen philosophy has already explore this fact)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
be good
be evil
but do it WELL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Although I am quite impressed with the believable, I am more impressed with the unbelievable.

quote:

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Original post by 5010
Although I am quite impressed with the believable, I am more impressed with the unbelievable .

---

yeah, i have forget to mention it, i have it in mind too, the unbelievable is the exageration and the impossible make beleivable, this is the best trick to go with
(remind me my explanation about going faster than time himself, ok there is flaw from a pure logic poit of view since it''s a paradox, but it''s lead to new logic which is MORE interesting to play with)


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
be good
be evil
but do it WELL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>