Aw, come on.

Look at Starcraft and its three-side balance, distinct tactics for each side, and a gritty sci-fi style.

Look at Warcraft III and its hero system, centering entire armies around distinct, individual entities, not to mention its melding with traditional RPG concepts in the form of ''creeping.''

Or Generals, with its Generals points and powers system, different tactical dynamics; Total Annihilation with an infinite constant-flow resource model and a highly specialized approach to unit types, with hundreds of units per side; Battle Realms with a ''yin-yang'' resource and balance system, and a unique training facility system for building up your units.

Even the awful Force Commander introduced some interesting new stuff such as command points based on success in battle and calling in buildings and units wherever you needed, a system rich in possibility even though the implementation was flawed.

I''d say the gameplay is evolving pretty well.

Looking at it from an RTS pov, the graphics have improved certainly, I thought Ground Control looked fantasic and Homeworld also was a lovely looking game.
With regards to player control, there is only so many ways you can tell a unit to move to point X, and the mouse point-click method is pretty much it.
Physics will get better as time goes on like with FPS/action games, however its not a huge issue in the RTS style of game.

While i wouldnt say that RTS games are perfect there is only so much you can do with the genere which makes the improvements less and less noticeable and games tend to be driven more by story line.

Now, take the recent crop of FPS/action games out there, same old story lines, practicaly the same control system and basicaly the same old same old. Yes, the gfx have improved but really thats about it, if anything the game play has gone backwards, so i put it to you that its not a case of RTS games not evolving its a case of FPS games having to make technolgical changes in order to keep people buying the same old dross over and over again.

I love the Ensemble Studios "Age" series, especially Age of Kings. I remember playing the Age of Empires demo when it first came out, the first RTS I had ever played. I was totally blown away. Then, AoK came along with loads of improvements. Better scale, graphics, trading, gather points, formations, outlines of things behind other things, etc. Age of Mythology also made major improvements, especially in the scenario editor realm.

I love RiseOfNations. It adds some elements of turn based stretegy game.

Starcraft is the best RTS ever created and always will be :D

- DarkNebula

quote:

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Original post by DarkNebula
Starcraft is the best RTS ever created and always will be :D

- DarkNebula

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/me crosses fingers for Starcraft 2 :/


And other than that... RTS games are evolving, but I''m not sure I like the direction of that evolution

This is bunk...

Look at the new FFs, and such. For RTS, take a look at Savage... definately unique and on the ball as far as advancing.

Other game types are still as unchanged... My god all FPS''s are the same... some add rag-doll phisics... (Or I should say some pay for havok?)... Come on... RTS''s and RPG''s don''t need phisics... where would you stick it? It''s simply nto needed... they get pretty as does everything else. They''ve explored alot of ground... (In a RTS there can only be so many types of units... till you get redundant... and most all of these have been.) they''re just not ready to die out... (like adventure games did...)

I think part of the problem you speak of is part of a larger problem with computers in general - the hardware hasnt changed so the level of input and the sophistication of interaction hasnt changed.

I mean take your average computer game....the types of interaction are limited:

you can kill, protect, give items, collect items, and combine items. Oh yeah and you can parrot back boring text.

The keyboard as an input device fools you into thinking what you are typing could he sophisticated....it really isnt. Most games you merely type a preprogrammed set of words that you got from a walkthrough.

Neural nets (learning behaviors) and fuzzy logic (using less than whole sets of logic values for combinations of input) offer some hope.

But until computing gets a lot faster, until game programmers start using a library of code for behavior that is open source and therefore constantly producing more sophisticated behaviors, until we have new hardware....very little will change.

Speaking specifically of RTS's, RPG's and FPS's...our team is working on just such a problem. We are actually blending FPS, RPG, and RTS for a more cohesive whole.

The idea is this:

1) Players FPS and RPG in an MMOPRG persistent world to get xp/skills which advances your character.

2) Advancing your characters leads to guild creation for territorial domination

3)expanding your territorial advancement, however, takes resources which must be explored for, collected, and protected.

If you think about it, thats the way real life is anyway...and the convergence of them all makes XPing and questing all the more fun.

One of the most boring things to do is farm for gold, but in a world where resources can be hoarded and sold, it becomes much more interesting. Thats a REALLY short description that doesnt do our work justice, but I described merely what was addressed by this post.

Well just my 2cp.

Alfred Norris, VoodooFusion Studios
Team Lead - CONFLICT: Omega

[edited by - Vanquish on November 30, 2003 1:58:00 AM]

I think "Baldur''s Gate II" is at the peak of RPG evolution right now. The character interaction in that game is just... awesome. Yeah, I guess it does go slow for RPGs.

I think the evolution of RPGs is about how developers let the player experience the game world, the story, their character, and the characters around them. Any game that doesn''t put a prime focus on these things are just going backwards.

MMORPGs could further the evolution, but developers just restrict too many things. The game world is boring, story elements are not implemented well, I feel like my character is a car that I''m trying to fix up instead of a persona, and I can summerize the character interaction to a couple of phrases.

quote:

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Original post by Vanquish
Neural nets (learning behaviors) and fuzzy logic (using less than whole sets of logic values for combinations of input) offer some hope.

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Don''t get too excited. Neural nets are just elaborate pattern-matchers, and fuzzy logic is just a formal way of representing partial-truth. The real difficulty is providing these systems with interesting input and useful behaviours for the output.



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