ahh but you''re missing the point that all the recent replies are making. they''re explaining to you the devils advocate. why settings aren''t neccassarily so important to a game. you come back with "there should be more variety of settings" yet, when you look at the game world.. there are plenty of varieties of settings. Only the most popular ones are what you''re focusing on though, and the most popular games tend to be those of fantasy and scifi. The reason behind the popularity is because the movie industry is the driving force behind what current popular trends are. Is it a coincidence that a flood of new street racing games hit the market as soon as 2fast 2furious came out on dvd?

You also start your argument that people don''t give as much detail or skill while drawing an ogre, because its not based on a real world object. But the theories behind art, quantisized features, lack of symmetry and costume design, all apply to what a goblin would look like, just as much as it would apply to what a cowboy looks like, or a race car, or a flower. Art is art. It doesn''t matter what you''re drawing. Its how you express what you are drawing. If there is enough depth to your creation it will be believable and that is all that matters.

You argue about diversity in settings and the lack there of, but thats not what the industry case is. The problem is diversity in popularity. There is already a diverse market of worlds and games out there. Its what is popular though that gets heard about the most.

Here in the game design forum however, there is lack of design ideas. Design should never be limited by whats popular. All we are seeing here in the forum is MMORPG fantasy / scifi. These two settings account for 90% of the ideas coming through this forum. This is what i think bishop_pass is trying to get across however he is not communicating it to well. Rather than shooting down people''s statements, telling people they aren''t getting the point, or just keeping a pompous deminer over the whole thread, why not try to figure out where people are getting these ideas that you want to make a game about cowboys, and figure out where they''re coming from, then point them in the right direction from there.

quote: Why should I explain something so damn simple and obvious? If one can''t see the significance in setting and variety in settings, then I can only conclude that explaining it to those who can''t see the significance (or claim they can''t) would be a fruitless endeavor.

a) That''s a terrible argument. "If you don''t know, I''m not going to tell you."

b) The game''s setting is significant, I''ll grant that, but "variety in settings" is completely irrelevant. Why should I, as a game designer, care one whit about whether everyone else is using the same setting? The setting should be chosen to complement the gameplay. For example, a cowboy setting would fit an RPG better if the fighting was done with ranged weapons, and a fantasy setting would fit if it was done with swords. Neither setting is really suited to a flight simulator, but kryat is welcome to try . In these cases it would be foolish of me to change the setting just because everyone else does it, as it can only hurt the game.

To continue the movie analogy, let''s say there aren''t enough Disney-type animated films around. Would your solution be to complain to Quentin Tarantino and ask him to make them?

Well golly gee! Since there''s only 14 stories, then there certainly is no value in having more than 14 books!

Gosh darn! You''re brilliant! All of you. Please inform all of the remaining authors of the other million works of fiction how pointless their works are. And above all else, please inform all authors of Westerns, mysteries, thrillers, maritime novels, aviation novels, romances, and any other novels that are not about elves and robots that their novels are only repeating the 14 stories present already present in the fantasy and science fiction novels, thus rendering their books unimportant and redundant.

Tell me this: why will some of you argue until you''re blue in the face the most philosophical and general points which don''t really make a point at all?

The majority of responders didn't agree with you, so they're obviously idiots, right?

If you're looking to start a revolution, don't do it by posting complaints to amateur developers on a message board. I'm not saying your arguments and ideas or good or bad, I'm saying if you feel this strongly about things then do something (tangible) yourself.

If you want things done right, do it yourself. Don't pass the buck to all the "idiots" who don't see things your way and then berate them for not taking up the torch. Talk is cheap. Lead the way.

Edit: just an afterthought here. The cowboy western tv/radio thing was the predominant and equivalent form of entertainment in the 1950's. It got replaced by the sci-fi genre in the 1960's/70's with star trek and star wars. So, I agree, we're about 10 years averdue for the next original genre change...but I blame the internet for that. What I think we have now is an avalanche of mish mash, too much of everything...too much trying to do the same thing again and again with just a little twist. My argument still stands though...since no one else has come up with something better yet, unless it's you, then don't complain.

[edited by - penance on November 21, 2003 12:12:35 AM]

Let me see if I understand the stupid and retarded logic being presented here by the latest crop of GameDev''s brilliant minds: Setting is irrelevant, and all games, movies and books can make do with any setting, and in fact the exact same setting for all works. Let''s choose the South Pacific, and the year shall be 1856. No need for anything else.

And certainly, since setting is not important, any setting I choose should be perfect for all of you developers out there, correct? From here on out, do not use settings of your choice, since you argue that it does not matter. Use settings of my choice instead.

i think you just can''t accept that good points are being made that are contrary to yours, and thus you''re resorting to nothing but extreme sarcasm.

the theory about 14 stories isn''t as concrete as it sounds. What it means is that all literary works are a variation of or a combination of those 14 base stories. with that in mind if you permitate those 14 stories into all their respective combinations, then you have quite a large number to chose from, then you can vary them, using different characters, different themes, different settings. But what all stories boil down to, are those base 14. Shouldn''t be such a hard concept to grasp. I don''t understand why you are being such an ass about it really.

How to Make Friends and Influence People.

Good book, maybe check it out sometime, eh bishop?

quote: Original post by bishop_pass
Let me see if I understand the stupid and retarded logic being presented here by the latest crop of GameDev''s brilliant minds: Setting is irrelevant, and all games, movies and books can make do with any setting, and in fact the exact same setting for all works. Let''s choose the South Pacific, and the year shall be 1856. No need for anything else.

And certainly, since setting is not important, any setting I choose should be perfect for all of you developers out there, correct? From here on out, do not use settings of your choice, since you argue that it does not matter. Use settings of my choice instead.

Whoa, a Mod just stated that everyone that didn''t agreee with them was using Stupid and Retard logic.. Good Moderating!

Like you said before in order to make a game about a subject you need to be interested in that subject.. Its true your game play can be exactly the same and the STORY might be the exact same, but you do need to know something about the setting..

I think you need to calm down, take a deep breath and read what you have said.. then come up with a real explaination of what you wanted to get out of this post (if its really not just about telling people that they are stupid and being all high up on yourself) then maybe there will be some that agree with your point.

Possibly you have a solution to this Elf and Goblin problem

quote: Original post by Penance
The majority of responders didn''t agree with you, so they''re obviously idiots, right?

Not always obviously.

quote:
If you''re looking to start a revolution, don''t do it by posting complaints to amateur developers on a message board.

Stirring up the pot is good?

You have yet to explain why "variety in settings" is an issue here, or whether it''s a good thing at all.

Either the setting is important, in which case you should choose the setting that best complements the gameplay, or "variety in settings" is important, in which case you can''t make your choice of setting based on the gameplay. The second leads to a poorer game, in my opinion, one that doesn''t make sense in the setting, or one that has been compromised to fit in with the setting.

You can''t have it both ways...