Do most gamers suck in knowing what a good game is? It’s like many like McDonalds since they like quantity than quality. And I think it applies to many aspects of thing that people buy. Marketing targets tens and people in their early 20’s since they know they don’t know better and that they r people with more free time and money and not enough experience to know what is right and wrong, which they can sell any crap to them. Women are also exploited since they say they find their weaknesses of shopping and don’t consider the money. They say this on some media stations but don’t publicize it as loud as it should be. So since video games are becoming bigger than movies and music combined does that mean we are being targeted since they target what we like and just put a good spin on a bad product many times? I think so many times when the suits are involved since they are in it for the money unlike many gamedev people that make games because they try to make something good. take care

"Good" is subjective, just as is "beautiful" or "boring" or any of a million other adjectives. How can you place any concrete objective meaning on such a term, then point a finger at a gamer and say "you do not know what a good game is", while pointing another finger at another gamer and saying, "you do"?

What I think is good, others do not. What others think is good, I do not. Neither opinion is right or wrong; both are equally valid.


Josh
vertexnormal AT linuxmail DOT org

Check out Golem at:
My cheapass website

Arguably a good game is a successful one. The big companies know what makes a game sucsesful. Sadly that usual means stunning 3d graphics. Sadly quality gameplay seems to be on an the brink of extiniction.

Even in the indi market I haven''t seen much in the way of interesting games


-----------------------------------------------------
Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document

If we don’t know what is not good enough how can we make things better if we kiss ass to everything and say its all gold? We should say it like it is to make it better not say it’s all good to make it worse or maintain the same thing. We said that Atari is good then we would still be playing 4 bit games.


And not all good games are successful. it does not matter how good your game is as long as it gets good marketing. the best game thast unknow will not do as well and advertized game.

well thats what some results show

Depends what "good" means. If you ask some people, they will demand that it runs on there Pentium II, and if it does, it is the best to them. Others like the best graphics possible. People just figure that if they can make a game that gets at least an average mark on one of these ratings, people will buy it.

Scott Simontis
e-mail:ageofscott@comcast.net
AIM:ssimontis

quote:
Even in the indi market I haven''t seen much in the way of interesting games

This is interesting (pontifex II).

Okay, I''ll tell you some of my thoughts. Please don''t read me wrong. I''m not being negative, but I''m gonna lay some things down.


First off, stop chasing dimes and Face it. Game development is one of today''s biggest vanities. That''s just how things are.

If you really want to vent about the mindless masses that buy stupid games, well go right ahead. But when you''re done, get focused. Yours does not have to be a life of vanity. You do not have to be a pawn in a pointless game. You can keep your focus, and you can express your emotions. YOU CAN MAKE GREAT GAMES, IF YOU TRY. Do not make games that are all about the other games out there. Don''t do it because it pisses you off.

Go right now and read the first few sections of Chapter 5 of Crawford''s Art of Computer Game Design. Right now. Go.

Read the part about the game designer''s goal in designing a game, and how to focus on this before the topic in a disciplined manner. (Remember that discipline is something that is developed, not simply acquired.) Your inspiration may come from the topic and that is truly awesome, but without a goal, what''s the point?

Don''t make a game that''s about a topic. Don''t make a game about space shootings and flashy graphics and big guns. Make a game about leadership. Make a game about conflicting emotions. Make a game about keeping focus. Your topic grows around that.


Now we arrive at my second point: Study. Read interesting things. Read them. Without study, you lose focus. Studying really does maintain your focus. If you don''t study, that little shooter of yours is just another shooter. With study, you can pack it with emotion. Study.


Now stop being pissed off and get to work on your next game goal.

quote: Original post by Warsong
Do most gamers suck in knowing what a good game is?

Generally yes. They know if they like a game or not but they seldom manage to work out why. They don't understand how a game is made up (what the different elements of a game are and the reactions they can trigger) so it is hard for them to properly work out why they enjoy a game. For this reason you are unlikely to develop the next "best game ever" by asking gamers what they want.

quote: So since video games are becoming bigger than movies and music combined ......

Actually it isn't. In fact it is considerably smaller than both. In 2002 US (entertainment) software sales were around $5.5 billion (on sales of 162 million units). Box office revenue for the same year was $9.1 billion (on sales of 1.9 billion tickets). Add in retail sales & rental and the figure jumps to $25 billion. Music sales for 2002 were $12.2 billion and TV (which let us not forget is an entertainment medium) generated $54 billion in ad revenue alone.
source: Seamus Blackley - Develop Magazine 6th September.

Dan Marchant
Obscure Productions
Game Development & Design consultant

[edited by - obscure on September 23, 2003 8:37:45 AM]

Benjamin Heath speaks the truth. You all would be wise to listen to him...

...or you could just keep debating about the objective definition of an entirely subjective word...

...your choice, really.


I code, therefore I am.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"Kierkegaard reminds us that belief
has nothing to do with how or why.
Belief is beyond reason.

I believe because it is absurd."

10 years from now games are going to be bigger than movies. the suits know this. Companies like EA have proved this (sims). What was said that games are BECOMMING bigger than movies and music.. and this is true. The industry is growing in leaps and bounds. Add up total figures and sure, you''ll get numbers that look as if games won''t ever compete with a movie. Compare individual figures and you got yourself a stunning competition.

a GOOD game is something that has life to it. One that pulls you into its world and gives your senses and emotions an escape from reality. The better the game does this then the better it is. Benjamin Heath has it right. The more you study the more your imagination grows and the more your mind learns to focus. Study the most random stuff possible. If you''re doing nothing pick somehting up and read. Doesn''t matter if you want to learn it, if you believe in it, if you think its dumb, STUDY IT. The more knowledge you have the better you can create a world that is living and breathing and that people will want to escape to. Make games with these philosophies and publishers will surely pick you up because they know that these are the games that tend to sell.