Odd, there hasn't been a landfish post yet. Perhaps this will bring him here:



(sorry, I just can't resist posting that picture )

Anyway, in response to some points made:

quote:
You forgor Linear. Just squeeze it between Strategic and Story.

Darn't, your right! SLSDSMG (try to pronounce that! )

quote:
In my opinion, roleplaying games are a genre of games. What makes the difference between RPG and stupid first-person shooter[5] is the energy put by the team on different parts of the game. I mean that in a RPG more time is used to get a good story, a good stat systems and some interaction between players. The first thing we can see in doom is the lack of stats and interaction[6]. That what makes a true RPG-genre game.

That's where I disagree. A RPG isn't about stat's IMHO, it's about developing a character through actions, choices, etc. In doom, you never mold the characters personality. The Doom marine is just that: the Doom marine.

I guess that means that for the kind of RPG i'm thinking of you would need somewhat non-linear plots (similiar to Fallout). But I think it's doable.

quote:
MMORPG in which you play a role ??
I don't think there's any available, you rather are just an ever killing ever improving being with no need to eat, to drink or whatever the designer feel was not good for gameplay...

Well, that's what I hate about MMORPG's. There is quite a potential for roleplaying, but it seems that were still sticking with outdated and out-of-place systems.

-------------------------------------------------------
Working on bringing to life the worlds first 4D engine!

Edited by - TheGoop on June 19, 2000 10:41:29 AM

quote: Original post by MikeD

What about Vampire the Masquerade?

I''ve been a fan of the pen ''n'' paper game for years and I''m anxiously awaiting the computer version.

Wasn''t that meant to be more of a roleplaying game in the traditional sense?

Has anybody here played it?

Mike

yes indeedy. Have had it since Gold release day 1. It is awesome. Am in the process of making some mods for it already. The regular storyline (single play) was excellent. The fact that you can ST (Stoyrytell) your own adventures makes it the single best RPG I have ever owned.



"Five passengers set sail that day, for a three hour tour, a three hour tour...."

Let''s kill the term RPG and make the term CDG. CDG = Character Development Games?

It sounds like the only way to go to me.

Either way, the term RPG will become out dated/yes?

(the long absentee Landfish returns...)

Y''know my gripe about this one already. The goop gets a point in my book. No, two points... because I was about to start this post on my own, and he beat me to it.

The main reason CRPGs are not role-playing games is because playing a role sometimes requires you to do something that would be detrimental or inconsequential to the advancement of the character, simply to fufill the role. In essence, the point of a true RPG is simply to play the role, it''s pure escapism. By this logic, most people''s D&D campaiges are also not RPGs, but really kind of crazy board games. AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! (I play shadowrun, the biggest number cruncher of them all...=)

Trying to change the name is a little misguided. Unless you can find a REALLY snappy one. But otherwise, it''s like trying to change "comic book", into "graphic novel." You just sound like you want to be smarter than you are. CDG sounds good, but I don''t like the mood it carries. I suggest we steer this post towards title ideas. If there''s a really good one, we can all use it!

quote:
The main reason CRPGs are not role-playing games is because playing a role sometimes requires you to do something that would be detrimental or inconsequential to the advancement of the character, simply to fufill the role. In essence, the point of a true RPG is simply to play the role, it''s pure escapism. By this logic, most people''s D&D campaiges are also not RPGs, but really kind of crazy board games. AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! (I play shadowrun, the biggest number cruncher of them all...=)

Going from my pen and paper days where i sometimes played the character or DM/GM i found that it was quite hard to get people to "role" play. After some thought i realised the core of the problem stems from the individual players. What i''m saying is that people don''t know what their character is. One really has to sit down and think about their characters [personality] in order to role play. Maybe it would help in CRPG''s if there was a guiding hand to help player understand their characters personality.

quote:
Trying to change the name is a little misguided. Unless you can find a REALLY snappy one. But otherwise, it''s like trying to change "comic book", into "graphic novel." You just sound like you want to be smarter than you are. CDG sounds good, but I don''t like the mood it carries. I suggest we steer this post towards title ideas. If there''s a really good one, we can all use it!

I can understand what you mean by "mood it carries". In retrospective i can see that it would probably solve little. But i''ve got to say that i hate all these new terms like CRPG, MMOWHATEVER, BLABLA. Soon, we''ll have to have a dictionary just to understand what someones written in an email on the topic. It''s ridiculas! Movies don''t have this problem, we shouldn''t either.

Movies don''t, but music sure does. Listen to grind-core, ever? Or how about meth-core? Dark wave? Trip hop? Neo revisionist techno industrial retro punk folk? I agree with you. Another title will solve nothing. But the misnomer is pretty annoying...

Thought of the day. Remove "Linear" from your dirty word dictionary. If it weren''t for linearity, nothing would make sense. And every interactive story is linear in retrospect.

Landfish :
It''s like telling that we are all following our destiny.

If I''m from the future it''s true, cause I know what you will do, but his my life really written somewhere or is it just the temporal ranger vision ?

What people mean by ''linear'' is that you have to do things in an order and you can''t do otherwise, you have no choices.

I think that instead of linear story we must use : "set story game" or "single storyline game".



-* So many things to do, so few time to spend *-

Just to clarify something: I wasn''t seriously suggesting that we rename RPGs to SLSDSMGs, I just added that to illustrate what I think the games truly are . Nobody would ever remember that acronym, anyway (I know I had to look at my previous post to find it, and I came up with the damn thing! )

In fact, trying to rename a genre would be utterly impossible IMO. People are too set in their ways. And besides, the gaming press is already unable to figure out which genre a game fits into, anyway .

I''m simply saying that we as game designers need to realize what were actually making.

--TheGoop

DAMN STRAIGHT!

"One that does not change ceases to exist"
or
"Sometimes it''s better to divide than grow"

I can''t see why genres are elusive to the forces or nature. After all, they apply to us and we are a mere channel of nature.

So genre''s should change accordingly to the contents that they bear.

I disagree that:

quote:
I''m simply saying that we as game designers need to realize what were actually making.

--TheGoop

I think we don''t have to realise what "we''re actually making" but we do have to realise what "we made". That''s why we need genre''s that are true and precise [dictonary style]. If this mean''s new genre''s then so be it. But i simply don''t like expanded genre abbreviations. It goes in the wrong direction. I don''t mind the use of games crossing genres as this doesn''t confuse the issue unneccarily.

The knot has to be untide now! or so i say ;-)







WE are their,
"Sons of the Free"