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What's with stats? (RPG)

Started by June 15, 2000 05:57 AM
399 comments, last by Maitrek 24 years, 2 months ago
But how to create this interaction... HOWWWWW! *howls at the moon*

I''m thinking about this so much that I''m neglecting my normal ( graphics ) work . I''ll come up with something, I swear!
I''m trying to ban all preconceived ideas of interaction from my brain so that I can come up with something fresh. This thread is almost becoming a religious experience


Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.
It's only funny 'till someone gets hurt.And then it's just hilarious.Unless it's you.
What i was tring to get at is the a role played is a string of actions not just an action. So if the computer was to calculate your role playing efforts you would think that it would have to do this by calculating strings of information.

But what you said MadkeithV about the neural networks could very well be the other way of accomplishing this task. Although, as we all know it sucks the CPU juice.

I know scripts are commonly used for NPC communication but could they be canabilised to be used for the system your thinking of? Now i got to think too :-)

Maybe turning a script inside out so instead of being designed to generate commands they generate questions which are used to analyse the player? Although you would probably require multiple scripts for each player.

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!
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Perhaps to get your weighting system for what advances the story (since you have to have numbers in there somewhere), you could start with a basic template:

(just ideas, of course
Story points:
- Is a logical action for character type - +5
- Will reveal information heretofore unknown - +1
- Will steer the player toward humorous/cool event or setting - +2

and so on.

Then you ask the player either outright, or through some leading questions (a la Daggerfall) to define what they like. They may choose to weight for more violence, for humor, for mystery, for surprise, roleplay, etc.

Then you mix ''em all up and write an engine (heh, I can barely write ''Hello world!'' in C++) to analyse the choices in various scenarios, and award the points. A player chooses a path in conversation, a direction at a crossroads, whether or not to kill someone, and gets points accordingly.

Periodically, you advance the character in some fashion and let the player know it (in whatever way you please - stats, NPC reactions, whatever). What would be really cool would be if there was a database of the actions chosen, and you could hear about them in conjunction with the advance - ie, "We have heard of the nobility of your actions, saving the girl from the wolves, sparing the life of that troll in WeenerTown, and so we present you with the Halberd of Cheesy Goodness!"

ideas, ideas.

- gollumgollum
quote: Original post by Gollum

Then you ask the player either outright, or through some leading questions (a la Daggerfall) to define what they like. They may choose to weight for more violence, for humor, for mystery, for surprise, roleplay, etc.



I''d think that with an evaluation/story point system, you could weight it out automatically. If the player seeks out mystery, give him more of that, and make it HARDER!
( yes, I mean that, make it harder. )

Why did I reiterate that? Because I think a game should get MORE challenging as it progresses. After all, isn''t that the normal way you make a game progress? That''s why all those advancement systems in CRPGs seem so weird. The monsters get harder, but so do you, so you can safely batter the monsters... but that means the game doesn''t get harder!
( I remember killing Diablo, in Diablo 1, in a matter of seconds, before I even REALISED it was the end baddy. BUMMER! )

Anyway, that was slightly off-topic.

Going back to your "scripts", Paul.. I just had this really funny idea of voluntary player evaluation ( i.e., something like "training" to gain a "level". )
The player has to go to confession somewhere, and the priests asks a series of questions about his recent exploits. The player answers with yes or no, and the game weightings are adjusted appropriately...

Should be hilarious!




Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.
It's only funny 'till someone gets hurt.And then it's just hilarious.Unless it's you.
Okay, just a quick poll:
I'm building a generic framework thingie to test all these ideas in. I want it to be open, so you guys might be able to add to it. Here are the specs so far:

2D tilebased graphics, using .bmps and the windows GDI.

DirectX is not really an option ( unless you want to stick with DirectX 3.0, 'cause I am stuck with a WinNT4.0 machine. )
It's Windows-only of course, and C++ ( using MFC ). I hope that's not too much of a put-off

I haven't started on a design doc yet, I was just trying out if it would be difficult to get it working. It's more or less working now, so I'm asking, would this be okay?

If I program stuff this way, will you guys be able to add to it? ( the programmers among you anyway, I'll open the design doc as well for comments and additions. )




Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.

Edited by - MadKeithV on July 10, 2000 10:58:07 AM
It's only funny 'till someone gets hurt.And then it's just hilarious.Unless it's you.
No replies yet? I''ll just keep working on my design then .

( It''s going to be all Object-Oriented, with two facets: communication and data encapsulation. I hope it will be clear enough for non-programmers to understand what is going on. )


Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.
It's only funny 'till someone gets hurt.And then it's just hilarious.Unless it's you.
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It seems that whenever you challenge someone around here to be involved in something we all go silent. Well, at the moment I''m probably too busy with the final year of high school (very hard over here in Australia) and also programming a 3D engine (as well as maybe going to deconstruct some of the data from system shock 1 and have fun with that) but if there is any oppurtunity where I can help then I''ll tell ya. My directx knowledge is pathetic anyway, so windows GDI is fine (my opengl and glide knowledge is probably good but that''s not important).
My C++ knowledge will need some brushing up - never got around to using the stuff before even tho I learnt it at one stage.
Well, as an affirmed C++/DirectX newbie (working thru the Lamothe book), my role in all of this will be to _watch and learn_.

I'll be happy to do any backseat driving, should you need that.

- gollumgollum

Edited by - gollum on July 11, 2000 8:46:35 AM
quote: Original post by MadKeithV

No replies yet? I''ll just keep working on my design then .

( It''s going to be all Object-Oriented, with two facets: communication and data encapsulation. I hope it will be clear enough for non-programmers to understand what is going on. )


Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.


Humm.. i''ll help. I''ve got a good C knowledge if you need low-level stuff. And i''m learning C++ as we speak. I''m here off and on.. there''s gotten to be so many posts i can''t read them all like i used to, so i usually cover about half a day.. which seems to take longer and longer I''d be happy to help out where i can.. especially in design, since i''m an AI nut.

As far as stats go.. i think they''re still nessicary. You haven''t proven to me yet that a stat-less system would be even as good as a stat system. The problem i forsee is that it could only be used in limited areas.. the stat-less system. It works for first-person shooters, but not RPGs and such. Puzzle and strategy games i could see it working for as well. Adventure is hard to tell.. with the right plot, yes. The strategy and adventure would be nice to have skills at least.. i don''t know your thoughts on that ;p
Without stats, how can you play a role? I mean, all you''re doing is pointing and clicking like in a FPS.. and those get old fast. You recapped things, but failed to provide examples as to how they''d work. I could easily say "a stat system is needed for all games to allow the player to take on a role other than the one they are currently in" but i have no proof of that. Accusations without proof are hollow.

J

Hey Keith, I''d help. I''m pretty good w/ c++, but not MFC (sorry, won''t touch it). Where exactly would you need more help in, programming, design, etc.? I''d love to help, but right now I don''t have a whole lot of free time, so I don''t know how much I can do... drop me a line if you want.

Back to the topic, I agree with Niphty. I think stats are important, and I think a lot of you don''t like them because they have been done poorly in so many games.

How would you determine if you hit or miss without stats? Aren''t skills just a form of stats, that work together with the player''s attributes to show what s/he can and can''t do?

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"What's the story with your face, son?!?"
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