So your talking about changing the role of stats in RPG''s. My next question is, are you talking about making these new stats interal or external (player see''s them)?



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Hrm - it''d be interesting as to how you''d ghet the computer to figure out how a win or loss in some situations (or a succes or failure) would affect the story line. Still, the idea sounds pretty good. But that means that a fat sniper character could possibly dive behind a barrel and shoot wildly at some people and hit just because a success would be good for the story, or alternatively, a sharp-shooter could fail a shot that he''d easily get because this allows for greater story impact. My only problem with this is the Out Of Character element, which is something that is also controlled by stats and it''d mean that you''d have to have some kind of guidelines anyway for what a character can or cannot do. It''s really a human thinking thing there, where a human brain weighs up if it''s possible, then decides to see if the character can do that and then process if it works for the storylines.
Of course, in most RPGs on pen and paper the storyline is controlled not by changing the skill of the character and controlling his actions on that, but more like controlling the difficulty of the situation. If the fight should be lost and the character is kicking ass then usually some big sec-bot comes running around the corner to mess things up.
Maintaining character, maintaining gameplay and keeping a compelling storyline is hard to do without some solid restrictions somewhere on what can and cannot be done, and also on what should and should not be done (in the case of uncertainty like rolling a dice for shooting someone).

I''d make the numbers internal, there''s no need for the player to see if according to the system, he''s doing badly or well. The player should be enjoying himself ( with a healthy dose of frustration if he fails at tasks he wasn''t meant to succeed in ).

quote:
But that means that a fat sniper character could possibly dive behind a barrel and shoot wildly at some people and hit just because a success would be good for the story, or alternatively, a sharp-shooter could fail a shot that he''d easily get because this allows for greater story impact.

Yes, this would be possible. I think you see this happening in stories and games all the time. I''m thinking of the Hobbit, where the most obviously physically weak race ends up saving the universe, against all odds.
I think "against all odds" is important!
Note - a fat sniper character would ONLY succeed in the action you described if it was VERY important to the story, because in many other ways it goes against the grain ( the character would not normally be good at an action like that, and since you have definitions of "fat" and "sniper" these are concepts that the system should take into account.

That''s why I think it could work ~ if you keep it abstract enough.
Do NOT drift back into stats, do NOT drift into "action difficulty", because you''ll just be back at your average RPG system that relies too heavily on dice and stats.




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Well Now,

I agree on the most part, but I still
would always like a stats scren. But
yeah basically the player shouldn''t need
to see all those numbers.


STVOY

Mega Moh Mine!!

So the game becomes story driven. Could this be used for non-linear types of game i wonder.

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

I think it could be used for non-linear games, as long as you have the right "goals" for the AI to evaluate. It all depends on the amount of freedom and anarchy you''d like.


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What about combines this system with the current stat system used in RPG''s todate?

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

quote: Original post by pacman

Now, you get the "better" sword, but you don''t know it''s better yet. You attack a goblin, and it takes 3 hits, because you got low damage on all the hits, etc......

You would really have to play around with EVERYTHING you buy, and that would take some fun out of the game. I don''t know, to me, just handing the info to the player so they can get on with the game is a better idea in terms of playability.

I think it''s not that hard for a Player to get an idea of how good a sword is for him without any stats.

first of all the problem some time ago about an axe and a sword:
as a player knows, which weapon he used in the past, he would know, which weapon he has the most experience. if he switches weapons he knows, his experience with a new type of weapon will be near zero - so the new weapon eg axe has to be very much better to even level out with his trusted sword.

second there should be something describing the weapon - telling the player what kind of quality the weapon has. eg "a shining steel sword showing the signs of his designer - Bonehead the Dwarf" - as you might have figured out - Bonehead is a trademark well known in the rpg

The third thing is about the overall performance of a weapon:
- there should be classes of weapons (eg bronze, iron, steel, ...) where the order is clear - (eg a steel sword is much better then a bronze)
- next there is a feel of the weapon - at buying the character can have a few swings (not necessarily at the shopkeeper ) and the stats can be presented relative to other weapons at stack and in inventory (he knows the feel of all of them) in the form of - "the sword feels much better than the best you have!"
- last there is experience and performance - a character constantly buying some kind of sword and trying them on some unlucky monsters would have a very good knowlage of the way different swords feel - he get a very exact description - perhaps on the base of some past weapons "this is a very good sword even better then the average sword of Bonehead - it does even more damage than the one you had one year ago". - Well another character with a very good sword skill - using always his trusted old twohander would know if the new weapon is betteror wors than another but wouldn''t have any nearer references - that would call for a wider description "well it is very good balanced - Bonehead is known for that - though it''s slightly heavier than your old"

ok - i just got that idea 1,5 pages up - and i had to get them written down

- just the 2 cents of a human

quote: Original post by Paul Cunningham

What about combining this system with the current stat system used in RPG''s todate?

I think that would be a really good starting compromise. It would add some criteria that no-one has seen before, and that encourage roleplaying. I have so many conflicting ideas on this that it''s hard to organise them all




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MadKieth, the idea of story points or roleplaying points is awesome.

As for their implementation, I think that roleplaying points would be fairly easy. If you add abilities based upon specific skill use, mod reputations based upon what you do (ie, a thief that cooperates with the law may find it harder to advance it his guild and get better assignments, etc.), and you''ve basically got it.

But story points would be wicked hard to do. First you have to decide what makes a good story. In table top games, you can see the other people. You almost certainly know them very well. It''s gonna be real hard to even _know_ what makes a good story for the unknown player, much less implement it.

Having said that, I hope you can do it. And I _will_ be reading on.

-gollumgollum