quote:
I can''t help but feel that it is like some kind of decadent hunting sports, where some people just release the bunnies for me to shoot - it feels all so artificial.

I completely agree with most of what you''re saying. MMORPGs, IMHO, have been dragged down a dusty old road, tearing away at the concepts of role-playing to leave nothing but simple skeletons of what a the player''s urge for imagination can chew on. Emotion is usually only felt in presidence of gaining that next level or when their prizes are at stake, and this includes the meaninglesness immortality that''s presented to players making dying just another slump rather than a serious fatal incident. Even the worlds themselves present so many barriers and burdens that a player feels forced into the same ''room'' feeling.

Right now, we are forced to live on bread when we expect even subpar steak. Some developers are working on this (I hear Worlds of Warcraft may boost some faith, not too keen on the Matrix MMO though (I picture a ''limitless world'' burdened with barriers )).

I know many avoid MMO like the plague, but I myself hope to change that someday. If someone beats me to it, I''ll still present it because it will be worthwhile (My promise to develop and release Infinity, the MMORPG I''ve been designing for some 9 or so years now. I expect it will recieve it''s own line of treatment, but not with comparisons to many of the tried-and-failed games of today (Unless you compare it at face value, which might lack if only at first ). But again, I won''t be going for polish, just solid gameplay and the overall experience of playing the game the way a MMORPG should be played.

Call it a ''pipe dream'' if you must, but it will happen and I''ve got the dedicated ambition to do it

Sorry if it seems I went off center there, but my point again focuses directly on this same discussion and what I plan to do to change things for the better.

On a quick note, if I had more time to ''play'' games, I would be working yet again, using the Runescape game to test out a Clan Foundation I''ve been messing with. It focuses on alternating politics, structured planning, and solid role-playing, and it''s what I hope to integrate directly into my own MMORPG. If anyone would like to see what I''m talking about, send me an email and I''ll give you a glance at some of the innovative gameplay I''m planning, something that should bring light to almost any MMO Game and change how we design and play them

- Christopher Dapo ~ Ronixus

email (minus /NOSPAM/ ) - ronixus_X@yah/NOSPAM/oo.com

"If I said I was the Neo of Innovative Gameplay and Game Design, would you believe me?"

I wasted 1.5 years on Everquest, and here's my 2 cents.

At first, what kept me playing was the carrot they dangle in front of you. There was always something that was looming on the horizon, be it gaining a level, acquiring an item, getting new spells, completing a quest, etc. There was so much to discover, to achieve, and I wanted to experience it all...

Then there's the social aspect. You make friends, and at high level you join big guilds. This cements your involvement in the game. No longer do you log on and play for a couple hours at your leisure. Now you log on for scheduled RAIDS that last several hours. Your guild depends on you, so if you don't show up, it's frowned upon. You are essentially committed to a job by this point. Most guilds have a points system based on participation, which resembles real-world salary so much that it's downright scary. The more points you have, the more items you can "buy". You are a member of whatever guild and if you don't keep logging on for hours every day, you're letting down the guild and eventually they will kick you out. Like if you don't go to work, you get fired...

At some point, it became a force of habit. I logged on as a force of habit more than anything. Even if I didn't have anything to do, I would log on and find something to do... quite sad when I think about it, all that wasted time (real-life time...)

I'd say that in a MMORPG, the social aspect is what draws you in, but is also what drives you away. Funny how that works. When I quit the game, it felt like I was leaving "the family" as if it was the mafia... weird. Oh well.

[edited by - foofightr on June 29, 2003 6:12:20 PM]

My 2 cents:

THINGS I LOOK FOR:
------------------
I look for what I consider the most actual programming of ''roleplaying'' the game designers included in the MMO games today:

#1) Evolving story which you the character can be a part of/change if possible. Examples include: ASHERONS CALL 1/2 are the best at manipulating the actual game world to evolve the story of the game.

#2) Guild wars which actually CHANGE the game world. I hate the EQ style games where leveling has little reason other then to get an extra $10 bucks in there pockets! SHADOWBANE''s has a story plus guilds can actual CONTROL regions/take out other guilds, unlike static bullsh*t in EQ style games.

THINGS I RUN AWAY FROM:
-----------------------
#1) Games like MANKIND, where the interface is so horrible that you spend all your time micromanaging a macro-required space/rts game. I got better things to do then spend 2 hours ordering 100 ships around to sell ore!

#2) EQ. You either like it because its social, or its a complete brain waister. Carrot chasing static world with no evolving story (just add-on packs $$$$). I have no sympathy for those addicted to this. Although I do wish I created a game that could have 100 thousand players filling MY pocket with $12 each month!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- John

Content is what keeps me playing ...

I could really care less about graphics ...

I still prefer MUDS too games like everquest

I''m a long-time Everquest player, i''ve multiple accounts and multiple characters playing the ''end game''. I have the coveted ''epic'' and recently solo''d a Dragon with a cleric class character. So if there''s one thing I know about it''s Everquest.

Ask any EQ player - and I have - what keeps them playing and they will tell you that it is the social interaction. However most EQ players spend their time idly ''churning away at xp'' and not really saying much.

It seems that guilds are the hotbed of online society, and the people you actually meet with in game are just tertiary and beyond the opening pleasantries no social discource need be entered into, although sometimes this does happen, rarely do these people become friends you play with again.

In other words, as players we tend to speak more to our existing friends before meating new ones.

So how does a game like Everquest continue to appeal to players after they''ve done 65 levels of xp, 100 levels of aaxp, quested for the millionth time and killed that wretched Dragon again and again and again and he still hasn''t dropped item X...?

It''s simple, in my view, the reward.

As players we become attached to our characters, the more unique and personable the character is then the more we become attached to it.

Before EQ introduced the clerical summoned hammers I was a rare example of a cleric who could melee, I had a melee weapon that made up for the cleric class'' shortcomings and could output almost as much damage as a traditional character. When the new summoned hammers where introduced I was sorely dissapointed to find that I no longer had this unique attribute.

It wasn''t so much that I wanted to be superior to other clerics, I just wanted to be unique.

I don''t want to play drone03, I want to play Venerable Pneumatic Dryll, High Priest and Regent of Innoruuk.

Every reward in the game improves our characters for a long time to come. Make them too common and they become trivial and soon replaced, that''s where EQ wins. It is possible to play for a year or more and some of your equipment remains the same, but in the last year I have progressed immeasureably - steadily achieving one goal at a time.

Oh yes, I like to socialise with my online friends too...

I played EverQuest for a little while. I found it fascinating the culture that developed within the game between the players, beyond the control of the developers. The abbreviations, the standard phrases ("DING!"), etc.

For a while there (still don''t know if this is true), the enchanters kept a very tight lid on how to craft certain magic items. Once fellow posted a pic of his bank. He had over 100,000 platinum. "Magic crafting has been very good to me", he said. How did this secret club develop? It was just something we all accepted.

There were the occasional 16th level 6-member necro parties that would take on giants far sooner than they should have been able to. What a light show!

There was so much more to the game than just levelling up and practicing skills. People congratulated each other on levelling. There were mature players, immature ones. People hit on each other (I saw two people necking in a hallway once. OKAY.) Dwarves acted like dirty old men, and the female characters encouraged them by assuming certian postures. Trolls and ogres would roleplay by speaking in broken Common. Some people, by the way they typed, you could just tell they were cool to hang around with, and they had very youthful and fresh senses of humor. Others were a royal pain and knew how to waste your time.

I hooked up with a level 24 group, and it kind of felt like I had graduated from college and was enjoying success with friends. Eventually, I got my druid up to level 30. But there got to be so much trash talk and fights over spawn areas that it kind of went sour on me. I became very selective about who I wanted to group with, and that actually created difficulties for me. By that time, level 30 play was so difficult and the people were so uppety that I gave up on it. I didn''t really want to invest much more into the game than just having a simple good time. But the people were trying to make it more than that at those levels. Plus, I was getting too impatient with the frustrations of the game, so it was time to move on.

About getting experience to level up being boring, why not create new ways of improving characters?

Vagrant Story: alot is based on equipment affinity, stats are permanently improved by items (elixers) and defeating bosses (this can be altered to become MMORPG quest rewards as long as there are enough quests available). There is no LEVEL attribute.

Final Fantasy VI: Leveling in this but spells are learnt from Gems containing powers, you gain AP from battles to learn these spells.

Final Fantasy IX: There is leveling in this but alot of skills are learnt from equipment. When you are wearing the piece of equipment you can access the skill, eventually you will learn it and it is possible to access it without wearing the equipment. (I might not have explained it very well but it''s very simple and worth trying out if u can get your hands on a copy).

There are alot of ways to improve characters and reward players. I am sure there are many examples of RPGs that have different ways of improving characters that can be adapted for MMORPGs.