What is the point of magic when imbued items with 3 or 4 enchanctements are commonplace, and where it becomes quite easy to create specific uber-items (or have them created for you)? I think it is ridiculous that just about every steroetypical level one character in games can garner magical equipment, and by level 5 or six rarely has anything non-magical. Where is the magic in that? But the real kicker...if we refuse to dole out magic items on a regular basis, does it make them more valuable and make the gamer''s enthusiasm at acquiring one sky rocket, or are they frustrated at the lack of magical items that they are used to in every cookie cutter game they play. Its 5am for me and time to sleep...sorry if this rambled.

You definately have a decent point. However, a balance of the both of them can easily be achieved by requiring certain attributes for an item''s use. An example of this is Diablo, which required that your core statistics be on par with whatever the weapon demanded for you to even be able to use it. Of course, you''d require much more out of a player to be able to use magical rather than non magical items. However, another side to this is that in some games, certain classes cannot use magic. Take for example The Elder Scrolls: Arena by Bethesda Softworks. Only mage classes have access to magic, your typical warrior is restricted to potions and enchanted items. In many, if not all cases, the magic itself cast by a mage would be stronger than that flung about by the weapon. On top of that, the mage has control over how and when the spell is cast. If it''s a "cast on hit" spell (See TES: Morrowind) you never really know when it''ll happen during combat and whether or not it''s to your advantage. Basically, enchanted items are not as potent as the raw spell used to cast it. I think that would be one of the best routes to take with enchanted items and magic in the same game.

It's called money baby. If you don't give the player an instant need/reward to make level 2, level 3, level 4, etc, you are not going to get your monthly payment.

One could just as easily ask, "What's the deal with food? If everyone always has it, why bother at all?"



[edited by - Buster on May 9, 2003 10:34:14 AM]

quote: Original post by OctDev
What is the point of magic when imbued items with 3 or 4 enchanctements are commonplace, and where it becomes quite easy to create specific uber-items (or have them created for you)?

Lets suppose we wanted to create a world in which magical items were *really* special. First of all:

1. These magical items would have to be quite powerful, or they aren''t really worth the trouble of finding them. It''s hard to get that excited about a +1 dagger. Even better, they should be unique. Generic +1/+2/+X weapons aren''t really that interesting, particularly if everyone has them.

2. People will tend notice the guy with the glowing, fiery sword and remember what he looks like, and where he went. As a result, you character will attract more attention from unscrupulous, powerful NPCS (or even PCS if we''re talking about multiplayer games) who would quite like that fiery sword for themselves....

3. It may be that too much magic in one place can overwhelm a character and drive him nuts or something like this. Perhaps a level based restriction on the number of magical items a character can carry? This would also go some way to alleviating the packrat mentality - grabbing every magical item you see whether you need it or not just so you can sell it later will no longer become a viable option.

4. Non-magical items need to be sufficiently interesting so that players have a decent choice of options before they need to turn to magical devices. For example, different weaponsmiths might well manufacture weapons of wildly different quality, ranging from crudely fashioned blades to perfectly balanced swords with finely honed edges. There is a lot more potential for variety than the generic ''non-magical sword'' used in 99% of RPGs.

5. Monsters which require magical weapons to be slain should be used with extreme caution. If you include such a creature, you are effectively asking the player to quest for a suitable weapon, which itself should be quite a task. Alternatively, there should be ways to ''defeat'' the creature without necessarily killing it. (trapping it in a cave for example)

quote: Original post by Bajiroshi
Basically, enchanted items are not as potent as the raw spell used to cast it.

I like your points, and I like this one the best. I think it works best in a situation where wizards, though extremely powerful later in their experiences, are extremely weak to begin with. This kills off a lot of wizards, so the powerful ones become rare. That's ok to do, as long as you make it clear that wizard classes are best suited for experienced players.

quote: Original post by Buster
It's called money baby. If you don't give the player an instant need/reward to make level 2, level 3, level 4, etc, you are not going to get your monthly payment.

One could just as easily ask, "What's the deal with food? If everyone always has it, why bother at all?"

Well, part of the question is definitely, "Is it still going to be fun for the masses?". I am concerned that making magic rare might limit the user audience (from a design perspective; I am not going to delude myself into thinking I'l be in a position where this actually matters). However, I think that the need/reward system can be established through other means. Early level characters can get jobs from NPCs, guilds, etc, to keep them moving. Make everything harder to attain. Spend 10 levels trying to get that perfect suit of armor, and then introduce two incompatible pieces from a more powerful suit. Ok so now they can try and make enough $$ to upgrade. This makes garnering magic suitable for high leel characters, keeping them interested. Many games do this, but there is not a lot of point in continuing to play a game where you are jus getting more and more ridiulous weapons (at least, its always made me stop playing).

quote: Original post by SandMan
...1...2...3...4...5...

Good points. My theory is to combine 1 and 4; every game makes every broadsword the same; I think different smiths should give modifiers, plus and minus, on different item attributes, based on their skills and expertise. #2 is a great idea; That makes life in town so much more interesting. I like 3 and have been thinking about somthing similar. I think that players should indeed be limited on how many they can carry by making too many start to have negative effects. Cool thing being that the player can begin to balance the magic out and see if it is worth wearing that ring but being slightly more unstable. Alos, magical negation is a good idea. If you have a fire sword and ice armor, they should fight agaisnt each other. This also makes combinations of magic rarer, which makes good magic even cooler when acquired. As for 5, agreed. Rare and avoidable, unless it is some legendary monster that the player can properly prep for before meeting.

[edited by - OctDev on May 9, 2003 5:02:46 PM]