What makes fantasty creatures fantasy? I mean, what is it about Mythological and Tolkienesque creatures and races that make them so uniquely appealing and special to people? Think about it -- fantasy creatures aren''t just non-existent creatures. They''re creatures that, despite being fictional, have survived hundreds or even thousands of years, being passed down through the generations in the form of stories and art. Dragons, unicorns, sea serpents, elves, dwarves, gnomes, goblins, titans, ogres, mermaids, faeries, leprechauns, ghouls, griffons, and on and on... all of them are creatures that have secured themselves a permanent place in the long-term mythology of the human race. But WHY? I could make up a creature right here on the spot -- I could define its history and evolution, its physical and behavorial traits, and any number of attributes, and it would probably not become a creature of myth, merely of my own short-term fiction. Robert Jordan is a well-known contemporary fantasy writer that has created his own mythology for his popular series, The Wheel of Time. What are the chances that trollocs are going to become creatures of general myth, and spread into other works? Its possible, certainly, but I see no evidence of it at the moment. So again, my question is where is the line between fantastical creatures, and merely the unusual ones? I have my own ideas, but I''d like to hear others first. **************************************** Brian Lacy ForeverDream Studios Comments? Questions? Curious? brian@foreverdreamstudios.com "I create. Therefore I am."

My own thoughts: These creatures (particularly the ones you mention) were myths long before the invention of mass media - and especially before similar stories were around for comparison (i.e. before Tolkien there was not much else in that genre). In that way, they were unique enough to be remembered by those who heard the stories.

Prior to this, all society had were folk legends told around a campfire to keep their imagination going. With the invention of mass media only a select few things can make it through to become "myth" status due to: 1) there being too many stories and 2) society''s short attention span.

I think only think of a couple examples of creatures (races) that have started to move past a small audience segment and into the general public''s eye (some of which could eventually move into myth status if copyrights expire). These are races from things like Star Trek (Klingons, The Borg), Star Wars (Wookies), superheroes, etc. "Fan fiction" can also be a good indicator as to which "creatures" have a chance to endure beyond their original fictional genesis since fan fiction generally indicates when someone''s imagination has been captured.

I think generally what can distinguish one creature as a myth and another creature as an obscurity comes down to three things: 1) Unique characteristics that make the creature easily identifiable, 2) A good surrounding tale/storyline to capture the audience''s imagination and 3) Marketing. In today''s world a creature will only become legend if enough people have exposure to the tale.

Regards,
Jeff

Another thing that I will say. All those creatures you''ve mentioned were probably (at one time or another) believed to have actually existed. That was probably a key component in sparking the imagination enough to endure the myth.

No one has ever believed a trolloc existed...whereas Tolkein''s creatures were mostly based upon previous myths (I think a mixture of European myths). Furthermore, Tolkien''s work was much more groundbreaking than Jordan''s (Wheel of Time feels like it''s drawing on so many fictional influences: LoTR, Dune, etc).

Regards,
Jeff

Well, many of these creatures you name are very modern manifestations of more ancient ideas. For instance, a humanoid elf would be ludicrous before Tolkien. The Tuatha de Danaan, the primary elves of legend, were not much like the D&D elves at all. Same thing with dwarves or goblins. They were mostly little beings, like gnomes or brownies, with very small niches in human life. The idea of giving them a culture, language, and nation in the world is very new.

As to creatures, Smaug-looking dragons are also new. However, dragons have been a major aspect of mythology as long as mythology has been around. Oriental dragons, european dragons, and a variety of variations, such as Quetzalcoatl and sea serpents, have been around for ages.

Anything with a foundation in Greek mythology has a leg up from the Roman Empire, which conquered the world while believing in them. Anything that has religious value derives longevity therefrom. Heraldry kept gryphons, wyrms and unicorns around, as well as the pheonix and whatever else they used. Popular ancient stories, like Norse legends or The Thousand and One Nights, are also sources of these ideas.

Science has preserved more than a few of them. paracelsus used gnomes, sylphs, salamanders and ondines (Secret of Mana anyone?) to manifest the four alchemical elements, and the mythological constellations set a precedent for naming astonomical phenomena after gods and monsters.

The fact of the matter is that these beasts and deities are part of the lexicon, part of every culture, and they don''t go away. In fact, ascribing human traits to things like goblins and trolls actually diminishes their allegorical value. Now, when you talk about someone being an ogre, you don''t get that solid evil manifestation of eight hundred years ago, you get freaking Shrek.

In addition, fictional creatures that are already a part of our culture, like elves and orcs, have an advantage over new ones. If you mention an elf, it automatically conjures up tons of images from a person''s subconscious. A new creature, even a very original one, will have a hard time competing with the instinctive magic you feel when you hear "elf" or the instinctive fear you feel when you hear "orc."

Originality isn''t always good. Sometimes it''s a handicap.

Atlas
Developing Genetica, a tiling / seamless textures generator

quote: Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
For instance, a humanoid elf would be ludicrous before Tolkien.

Elves were always humanoid: they had two arms, two legs, human-like appearance, they just weren''t on the same order of height as humans

You still didn''t answer his question: Why did these creatures endure over others?

Indeed, my question has not been fully answered, but I do agree with many of the points you''ve all made, in particular the points about the effects of mass media on society, the flood of fantasy literature, and the fact that many if not all of these creatures were once believed to actually exist.

But I still think that, presented in the right way, one might be able to invent new creatures that are magnificent enough, and that touch the imagination profoundly enough, that they may yet become creatures of legend.

Which brings me to my own view on the topic: I believe that the familiar creatures of ancient myth and popular fantasy all share an element of special emotional magnificence. Some are mystical, some grotesque, others are powerful, beautiful, or mysterious -- but all of them represent some aspect of humanity.

I think that a spectacular but believable creature that represents a slice of the spectrum of human emotion or life could be one key to evolving modern fantasy, and more importantly the key to helping such a creature to endure through the ages.

Eventually I hope to build the game I''ve been working on for years: a truly original fantasy RPG -- one in which the player would find him or herself investing more than just time, but also real emotion and reflection, the same way some invest of themselves in the admiration of visual art, music, or film.

In order to accomplish this, I want every aspect of the game, including the fauna, to be of great importance in some way to the player. That means that they can''t be simply unique, but in fact inspiring, or terrifying, or astounding. And the player must see something of themselves, or their fears, or their hopes, in these creatures. (No, I don''t necessary need ALL creatures to share these traits. There will be small, ordinary, and generally insignificant "fluff" creatures, too.)

Thoughts?

****************************************

Brian Lacy
ForeverDream Studios

Comments? Questions? Curious?
brian@foreverdreamstudios.com

"I create. Therefore I am."

Minor point, and slightly off-topic: robert Jordan''s WoT has lots of "near-misses" to "real" creatures and events. Trollocs are big and nasty (though don''t turn to stone in sunlight". Ogiers have somewhat of an Ogrish reputation (though undeserved). One of the things I enjoyed about the series was spotting resonances with "real" things.

I think the mythic creatures are so because they fit certain archetypes - which aren''t necessarily to do with human life or emotions - except possibly the sense of wonder...

It seems that fictional creatures have to have background and capture the readers imagination to survive the test of time. Dragons, faeries and many other legendary/mythological creatures have scores of books written about their natures and history. Also, it seems to me that it takes some time before the creature makes its way into other fiction. Robert Jordon''s trollocs may appear in stories that are based on his world some 20 or 30 years from now.

Actually, I was pretty intrigued by the Myrddraal. I wouldn''t mind seeing stories centered on their history serving Ba''alzamon. With the richness of the WoT world, I wouldn''t be surprised to see stories based on it start cropping up within the next decade or two.

- Jay


[ Here, taste this ]

quote: Original post by coderx75
Actually, I was pretty intrigued by the Myrddraal. I wouldn''t mind seeing stories centered on their history serving Ba''alzamon. With the richness of the WoT world, I wouldn''t be surprised to see stories based on it start cropping up within the next decade or two.

I would, considering that Robert Jordan will probably still be alive and wouldn''t simply let other authors make money from his creation without paying royalties, etc. I''m not clear on the law here, but I believe that even an author''s _estate_ can continue ownership and intellectual property rights long after that author''s death.

On the other hand, fan fiction (i.e. for non-profit) is already cropping up today.

Regards,
Jeff