I do intend to trigger some sort of adrenaline rush when the player is on his last legs. My intent is that said adrenaline rush will cause the player to "ignore pain", in other words, while the wounds are still present, he temporarily ignores the adverse effects of the wounds. The trigger is a percent chance whenever this player gets hit...this percent increases with every "failed" adrenaline rush.

Also, it is an action RPG-I fully expect the player to demonstrate some ability when playing.

You''re also assuming that a player can''t heal. If he is getting his ass handed to him, I don''t see what''s stopping him from stepping back and casting a spell or drinking a potion (Magic should be present in my world)

Also remember: part of my design philosophy is that what applies to players applies to NPCs too...so NPCs also become weaker as wounded.


Moo.

I still think that you should have stormtrooper accuracy. Actually putting the player on equal footing with NPC enemies makes for a seriously hard game. We''ve all played Rainbow Six or some derivative, and we all know how frustrating it can be to get nailed after spending twenty minutes securing a building. No threats, clear... No threats, clear... No threats, clear... No threats, clear... No threats, clear... Okay, all *BLAM* WTF!?! And let''s not forget that in such games your guys shoot straighter and wear more armor than the baddies.

If you let every sharp implement inflict lethal wound on the hero, you''re in for a niche game. And your hit detection had better be absolutely flawless, because if I get decapitated by a hit that doesn''t involve polygons intersecting, I''m coming to you house. :-p

LOL.

Yeah, the basis for my game is that your average monster/npc is not on equal footing with the player.

Besides, the one hit KO is just on a critical hit...something that a) requires a head or torso hit, b) does not happen every time, c) can be reduced by loading up on armor/skills.

Its not that every time the player takes a hit he is doomed...I agree that would be lame. And I agree, Iron Chef, that we need good collision detection, and after giving it some thought I decided not to go with the "continuing the arc if hit" thing, unless the first limb hit is already useless...in terms of balance I don't want a mountain of dead flesh preventing combat.

Also, the one hit KO is much more a reality for the player, who, as I already mentioned, has stats much higher than the average monster.

In other words: In one on one combat, he is a death machine. As the odds start to stack up, I intend for players to use other methods than brunt combat...archery, stealth, traps, magic, etc.

I agree that it would take very careful balancing, but in the end I think it could lead to a great experience.

[edit]
IronChef, I just noticed your post in the "My Skill System" thread, and I thought that your post on the James Bond luck was a great idea. Perhaps the player can have a limited number of 'dodge' points, that regenerate slowly over time. One is drained every time the player would have taken a wound, and when he is out...then bam.

It bears some looking in to.

Moo.

[edited by - ElAntonius on April 3, 2003 5:24:08 PM]

[edited by - ElAntonius on April 3, 2003 5:25:15 PM]

quote: Original post by ElAntonius
[edit]
IronChef, I just noticed your post in the "My Skill System" thread, and I thought that your post on the James Bond luck was a great idea. Perhaps the player can have a limited number of ''dodge'' points, that regenerate slowly over time. One is drained every time the player would have taken a wound, and when he is out...then bam.

So, a points based system that features a quantity that decreases with "successful" attacks, and when the character runs out, they''re in deep trouble... I can''t shake the feeling I''ve heard this one before somewhere...

"All roads lead to Rome"

rmsgrey-RTFP. Or rather, read the post I was referring to. Or rather, read the past few posts back and forth between me and Ironchef, and you would realize what I''m talking about.

Moo.

quote: Original post by ElAntonius
rmsgrey-RTFP. Or rather, read the post I was referring to. Or rather, read the past few posts back and forth between me and Ironchef, and you would realize what I''m talking about.

Moo.

That would be the post about the James Bond style "first few shots miss" allowing, among other things, the player to dive from cover to cover with impunity? *goes back and checks thread* Yep. That''s the one. Still sounds like modified HP to me.

Then how about you post something constructive...like how to simulate "James Bond luck" in such a way that doesn;t sound like hp?

I don''t think I''ll ever brainstorm out loud again...

Moo.

I think there''s a real misconception going on here, and I think it can be traced back to the use of the phrase "that horrendous hp system" that was so recklessly used in the first post.

This is a search for an innovative health/damage system. HP has some redeeming qualities, but those traits might be preserved while certain disadvantages, like the "death by papercuts" and the "surviving nuclear blasts" might be avoided.

Above all, though, it has to keep a game fun and interesting. A lot of neat ideas have been sliding around here, and a lot of trash has been talked. The good ideas generally come from genuine attempts to contribute to the topic, and the trash tends to come from either die-hard HP supporters or cynical nay-sayers who can''t come up with anything meaningful to contribute.

Nobody is obliged to weigh in on this issue.

I think its also due to the thread''s title...I think that it generated a lot of misconceptions of what I was getting at...my bad =/. Also, I must point out that what I was going for with the ''horrendous'' comment was more the traditional Final Fantasy/DnD style systems...NOT every system that uses a counter to simulate wounds.

Iron Chef did bring up an interesting point, however, with the James Bond luck (trying to turn this thread away from where I''m seeing it headed), one that I think bears some serious looking into. The ''dodge'' points idea was what came to mind as the simplest way to do things, in that it didn''t require specific AI coding, but rather a simple variable.

What I had in mind when I made that comment was that the player would have about 3 or so ''dodge'' or ''fate'' or whatever points...and these would first drain before the player starts to become wounded. Or perhaps they could be used to convert potentially lethal critical hits into simpler wounds.

These would not be ''healable'' in the sense that HP is...the only way to recover them is with time, and/or rest.

The benefit from this is that it would allow me to make critical hits much more likely all around, so the player can sit there and slash up monsters but not die every time he tries.

Moo.

I designed some time ago a ''prayer'' system, for a custom pen&paper RPG : most people in the game world could pray one or more ''spirits'', to attract their attention. These prayers kept the spirits powerful and alive, so they''d return the favor, and for each prayer they would regenerate or ressurect those who have faith in them (it takes but a thought of thankfulness to regenerate a papercut, but ressurecting a body that has fallen into acid might require much more prayers than that - and you pay first).

So basically before each fight, or each night, the characters would pray their deities, and during fights, a short thought would allow them to regenerate that nasty head wound, caved-in thorax, or even ressurect them if they had prayed enough. So the final goal in every fight was to attack, chop and kill the opponents until their gods had enough of being "life support" (ie prayer amound depleted) and let their useless followers die.

Also, before nasty fights, you could ask for a great favor, praying more than usual, and being able to regenerate more and more. However, above a certain limit (that increases with experience and faith, and the deity''s esteem) the prayers get longer and longer to get effective (for instance, each prayer is 10 minute long below 10 prayers, 15 for the 11th, 20 for 12th ... 1 day for 20th, 1 year for 50th ).

That made for more interesting fights and roleplay, since people would stop in the middle of a fight to pray, and no one could ever go against his god''s will - lest he became naked in front of the enemy. Fights also were more gorish - no one survived to a bastard sword hit or a dragon breath, but hopefully they''d be back again soon after that, so limbs and heads were being cut off all the time, and there were loads of blood and guts where fights had taken place.

ToohrVyk