I''m currently developing a list of ideas for a trading game, with possible online application in small multiplayer form. Recently I have played a few online games such as StarKingdoms, TDZK, Utopia and the like, but the large emphasis they had on the war/military component of the game was putting me off, in particularly where you''d need to be online constantly to have a chance for survival. What I''m looking at is for a game with trade as the major theme/component and I rather like the concept of using the rennaissance of the 14th-16th centuries. In those times, a lot of merchants made great wealth by also getting into politics and the cardinals with the pope. I thought that maybe the game could have a few goals, a few thoughts I had were; - develop a trade empire by establishing trade routes, (perhaps limit this to overland trade until you reach a particular society rank) - use the wealth garnered to climb up society ranks, - sponsor an expedition to settle a new colony (perhaps the ultimate goal as it''d become a living monument to the player) However, the society ranks will not give you any clear advantage except that you would have to maintain it with expenses (ie.. a ranking merchant would need a villa which has costs), pay dues to the pope.. So anyone want to lend any thoughts onto this?

Perhaps as alternative to pure wealth, your player could sponsor art, philosophy, science, medicine or theology...start your own protestant following...I have to say I REALLY like your idea...and your right, too many (read: pretty much all) rpg's/resource management game,seem to focus on killing and maiming your way to the top...

Also perhaps, later in the game, some focus on the nautical elements would be fun...design your ships, chart the coast of africa, discover the new world.....

[edited by - HashMaster on January 26, 2003 6:25:08 AM]

Same here, i am interested, and have tons of ideas. I am also sick of the military slaugher multiplayer games.

It would be cool to create a real (ultima online-like) world, but with trading. (in an isometric form would be cool)
Erecting buildings, buying ships, create a guild (only if you first build a guild house), or join an excisting guild, have tenants, or rent yourself, or even starting your own city, lending money to others for interest, or lending it yourself, creating your own city patrol to make your quarters and your buildings safer (and yourself more popular).
If you need employees, you should build them houses as well, otherwise no one would be able to work for you.

Buildings:
Erect your own house
Erect your own palazzo
Erect your own castle
Erect a church, a museum
Build your own harbour (so you don''t have to pay the harbour fees no more if your ships dock)
Erect an Inn (with Hostel)
Erect a Shop
Erect a Farm

Vehicles:
Trade Ships
Fishing Boats
Guard Ships (to prevent pirates -computer- to raid your ships)
Horse Carriages (for personal use -> makes your respect grow)
Horse Carriages (to get your products into your shops around the different growing cities around the game)

At first the game could start with one city, but the more players there grow, the more cities there would be able to come.

Types of game points:
-Money (grounds, cash,
-Enlightenment (by funding artists, funding philosophers, by buying free people like galileo,
-Community Image (how the people around you respect you or not, can be improved by erecting your own statue, having a quartier of the city renamed after you, by funding churches - funding churches does make your enlightenment score drop though)
-Political strength (by creating expeditions

An economic engine could ''render'' random events like the market stocks, values of goods and grounds, political changes (votes, so you can even become mayor of a city),


I live in the ancient city of Ghent, and work a lot in Bruges, so i can get a lot of ideas here if you want to.
Contact me: info@gilamonster.be

I am willing to set up a group to encourage this to start off.
I am a fulltime freelance graphic designer / cartoonist / illustrator with working experience for major magazines, and i like sim games.
I have some knowledge of C++ and Vb, but more of Lingo (Shockwave).

Costs:

If you want status, you''ll need:
-Butler
-Cook
-Carriage driver (for each carriage owned)
-Shopowner (for each shop owned)

Other expenses:
-Harbour Fees
-Bribes (just don''t get caught)
-Donations (church, musea, philosophers)
-Get your own books printed (Status)
-Have maps printed of your routes and conquisitions
-maintenance of roads
-marriage (marry a rich mans daughter - girl is played by computer, and is not to be played, female players and male players can form alliances under marriage as well i suppose)

Some kind of chatting place (a chatbox) would be needed to have everyone talk to eachother, meet business partners, wives and husbands, or even make skeems. I suppose the chatbox could be a local bar or something.


Important people to fund (will cost a lot otherwise everyone would want to sponsor them):
-Galilleo Gallilei
-Michelangelo
-Mercator (map printer)
-Martin Luther (protestant) -> if you get caught by the inquisition, you will lose a lot
-That fames book printer, not Plantijn, the other
-PP Rubens (painter)
-Amerigo Vespucci (Who america is named after)
-Christopher Columbus (you know)
-

I suppose we should set the date to a fixed date in time that wouldn''t elapse, so that the game can stay in that century for ever.


A good inspiration could be Merchant Prince (if i am correct) i played it about a year ago. It was lame, but the idea was okay.
OMG, i have so much ideas.

And what about the following:

-all towns (areas in which players can settle theirselves and their trade companies) together are gathered into a kingdom, reigned by the Mod (the King Moderator, who keeps an eye on the kingdom, probably the owner of the server). Other important noble men are the other mods or creators of the game.
If you are rich and important (status) enough: you can be knighted into noblesse, that means you can get the title of Baron, Duke, Grand-Duke, ... (i will find a list of noble names if you want). Noblesse is for life, unless you betray the crown.

-There can be dozens of cities, but there is only one royal city, the capitol of the land. This city is ruled by The Crown, and the Nobles (mods).

-The cities will need Lawkeepers (early majors).
Every player should pick a city in which he resides. He is only able to pick up the power (legal power, as a major) in that city. If a certain town is reigned by player x, he can lay down that reign and move to another (lets say bigger, more powerfull city) to try to become major there.

-Taxes should be payed to both the crown and the church:
kinds of taxes:
1. taxes on goods
2. taxes on income
3. taxes on grounds and buildings
4. taxes on foreign trade

-Disasters that can set back the power, status and cash of a city or a colony:

1. the black death (can be solved by privatly funding the building of sewers, but that costs a fortune and can only be payed by incredibly wealthy players, can be held back by building a lot of hospitals).
2. witches (witchcraft is very bad for the status of the major, the law and the important people of a city).

-A book of laws can be read during the game. Laws are certain things that ought or cannot be done. Of course it will be possible to break the law.
Penalties:
-money penalty
-all lawbreaking activities in which you get caught affect your status and politic/economic status
-severe lawbreakings (that affects the game negatively so that the game won''t or hardly can run, or cheating will be punished by DEATH (expelling from the game).

I have plenty more where that came from.

You need to play Uncharted Waters and Uncharted Waters: New Horizon. They have everything that you need...well not everything, but almost:

1. Trading route. The game takes place in 15th century, Age of Exploration. There are a lot of trading routes.
2. Society ranks. You know it when the King calls you. Imagine a Duke in front of your name.
3. Colony system. You discover a city in Far East, no one has ever been there before, you claim it belongs to your kingdom, you gain fame.
4. Taxes (UC:NH). When you buy something, you have to pay taxes. Unless you have some special permit...
5. War. Fight pirates, fight other brave sailors, be pirates...or being raped by pirates.
6. Historical ships. You name it, all ships used are historical. They are not imaginary.
7. Real cities. They don''t have Blauderon, Garikh. They have Venice, Baghdad, Macao, Lisbon, etc.
8. Historical important people. Well, they don''t exactly have them, but they have people with similar names in certain places...Well, you find Diaz right in Africa...You find Christoper in New World...something to remind you
9. Real resources. You buy carpets in Turkey and Middle East. You buy Pearls in Far East. And they are expensive in Europe, back to point 1: Trading route.
10. Local tavers, inns, guilds, merchants, schools, castle, shipyard...they got everything.
11. Discoveries. Dodo, Stonehenge, Victoria Falls, Mammoth, Sabretooth Tiger, Rosetta Stone, Burning Water (guess what it is), Komodo Dragon...etc etc etc (too many to mention) all explained. You gain fame by discovering too.

And hey, it''s an RPG! It means there is a character development there.

I played that games for months..maybe years....I can draw world map in details, name cities...historical ships...notable important people...it is very educational and fun. God I wish that game was MMORPG...that was surely fun, very fun.

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Seriously, if you ever done a similar game in MMO version, I'll play it. I have had this idea turning Uncharted Waters series to MMO since some years ago, but I don't have ppl, money, and skill. I want to play that kind of game..in MMO.

Shit, can't wait fighting real ppl with 10 heavy armored battleships...

ah, just remember more things:

12. Economy. Real economy is here. There is a possibiliy of inflation or deflation. It all depends on the players, not computer controlled. You know...what's gonna happen if the demand goes up Think this. You just discover a new trade route. More people know about it. Item X's price has increased significantly in a city that the trade route is no longer a trade route due the price increase/decrease of item X. You just gotta find another trade route...or wait until the price goes back to normal.
13. Storms!! A level 50 sailor with 10 battleships doesn't mean he is unbeatable. A storm can take down entire fleet.

ONE MORE: count me in if you want to start this project!! I'm a C/C++ programmer. I am really passionate making this kind of game!!

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[edited by - alnite on January 27, 2003 4:46:06 PM]

Whoa, alnite and gila, you certainly are making me eager to get this ball rolling further than I hoped in terms of response enthusiaticalism..

I'm keen myself to start moving the ideas into a project but I've no means any practical experience in programming (only a couple school subjects) and I usually contribute best with game ideas, stories, plots and research into the topic.

But as I'm sure that a lot of games dont eventually go commercial, perhaps the best alternative would be to host the project at site such as SourceForge where they offer good support, as well as enabling the project to attract more ppl interested.

But if you otherwise know a better alternative, I'm all ears to hear about it.

[edited by - lofty on January 28, 2003 1:19:51 AM]

Well, we''ve found one story teller/plotter, one c++/c person and one nifty grafician (me). That''s a small crew. Let''s start a thinktank and seek for others.
Does anyone of you have a server? Otherwise i am willing to look out for some space to throw a forum on for us to chat, and work out small ideas.

As I mentioned, SourceForge may give us some free space for development including forums, bug reports, version releases and etc, pretty much everything you''d like to have for project management..

Only thing though is that the project be required to be open source and available for download on the internet, though it will be protected by a public licence/copyright thingy..