You are right that there are many types of people getting into these games lately. For some, something that is designed to be a MMORPG turns into a graphical chatroom. A large part of the problem is when people meet others from across the world - in game - and then strike up an OUT of game social relationship... but continue to do it IN game. Then, a meeting with a fellow clan member, for example, can involve such things as "How ''bout those Raiders?"

Dave Mark - President and Lead Designer
Intrinsic Algorithm - "Reducing the world to mathematical equations!"
RIPPL Sports - NFL Statistical Analysis and Prediction System

I''m not a big fan of RPGs but I don''t think they''ll die out!


WikedGamer

If roleplaying is roaming around hunting squirrels and pointless clicking that could be replaced with macros and using phrases like "OOC: FAGGOT" or "THOU SHALL BE PERISHED PUNY HUMAN, MY LONGBOW +2.75 WILL PENETRATE THOUGH YOUR <CENCORED(READ EULA, ELFS or ANYONE ELSE DON''T SINCE WE WANT TO PRETEND THIS IS PG-13, FAGGOT)>, then please Darwin, kill the roleplayers fast and the developers too...

Role-play designers would do better to just provided a calculator for combat and automated character sheets. Todays RPGs fall into two categories, subscription based irc and novels on CD. Not that theres anything wrong with those two, just the nomenclature is starting to confuse.

Is it a bad thing if someone''s idea of having fun in an MMORPG is killing monsters will chatting about the radiers with his in game buds?

Having been a huge fan of paper and pen RPG''s in my youth through early college days, I''d have to say that if you''ve never played PPRPG''s, then give them a chance. Go to a local hobbystore, and see if they have a game club. There''s also something to be said about having a real life camraderie as opposed to a virtual camraderie. My best friend to this day is someone I met during a game session at his father''s hobby store when we were 10 years old (yup, I started young, and believe it or not, I started playing with historical miniatures like Napoleonics and American Civil War instead of AD&D)

I''ve never played a MMORPG for several reasons. Firstly, was hearing what people described here, that people basically use these games as a sort of chatroom. Secondly, that it''s not about role playing, but as we used to call it...roll-playing. Thirdly, in PPRPG''s, you had a gamemaster that essentially guided the play along. He was the ultimate AI that could handle what the player threw at him, and more importantly was very much like a director and producer rolled into one. From what I understand, there is no such analogous role in MMORPG''s.

Having been a GM during most of my PPRPG days, I can attest to its vital role. Basically the GM introduced the campaign look and feel, setting its tone, and providing a direction for the players to go about. A Good GM could let the players think they had total freedom in their actions, and yet still subtly guide them along a definite purpose. To me, MMORPG''s are basically just about increasing your character''s stats, powers and wealth and not really about being immersed in a story. And that is really what RPG''s are about, being involved in a story.

I personally don''t know why so much attention is being paid to developing MMORPG''s, as it seems that more than half of all incoming games are some sort of MMOG. The trouble is that not only do people have different perceptions of what MMORP is about, it also means that fewer and fewer people will have both the time and the money to spend on them. No matter how rich someone is, there are only 24hours in the day, so why the market is being flooded with a bazillion MMORPG titles is really beyond me. If the publishers and developers really thought about, it is not a good idea to make a game in that market due to the ferocious competition. If they love the genre and have a great idea, more power to them, but if they are doing it just because they think MMORPG is the next big thing....they are in for a serious wake up call.

quote: Original post by Dauntless
Having been a huge fan of paper and pen RPG''s in my youth through early college days, I''d have to say that if you''ve never played PPRPG''s, then give them a chance.

Yep, just like I said, if you want real roleplaying then check out pen and paper games.

quote:
I''ve never played a MMORPG for several reasons. Firstly, was hearing what people described here, that people basically use these games as a sort of chatroom. Secondly, that it''s not about role playing, but as we used to call it...roll-playing.

There''s nothing wrong with "roll-playing", it can be fun, and it''s a lot easier to develop a game that is just hack and slash as opposed to something that''s more than that.

quote: Thirdly, in PPRPG''s, you had a gamemaster that essentially guided the play along. He was the ultimate AI that could handle what the player threw at him, and more importantly was very much like a director and producer rolled into one. From what I understand, there is no such analogous role in MMORPG''s.

Some games have "live-teams" that generate content for the players and play roles in the game world. I''m not sure how well developed this is, but it could be a trend toward something like a real game master. Both Vampire and Neverwinter Nights (not MMORPGs, but...) have online support for gamemasters, I''m not sure how well this feature works or how widely used it is.

quote:
I personally don''t know why so much attention is being paid to developing MMORPG''s, as it seems that more than half of all incoming games are some sort of MMOG. The trouble is that not only do people have different perceptions of what MMORP is about, it also means that fewer and fewer people will have both the time and the money to spend on them. No matter how rich someone is, there are only 24hours in the day, so why the market is being flooded with a bazillion MMORPG titles is really beyond me. If the publishers and developers really thought about, it is not a good idea to make a game in that market due to the ferocious competition. If they love the genre and have a great idea, more power to them, but if they are doing it just because they think MMORPG is the next big thing....they are in for a serious wake up call.

The draw of developing MMORPGs is that you can charge a subscription rate. Not only does this give you a constant revenue in addition to the original cost of the box, but you also can basically guarentee that everyone is paying for your game, as opposed to with single player games where you know that tons of people are pirating it. You''re right about the flooded market though, these games appeal to a certain set of hardcore players who only have so much time in the day. However, you are likely to get a lot of players that are still paying and not playing much, if at all, especially people that have very high level characters and want to keep them around. I think that MMO games will have to move away from requiring you to play 1000s of hours to get anywhere in the game to being able to be played casually (which is kind of happening with games like Planetside or the Sims Online.)

quote: Original post by scaught

There was at least one more - maybe if you search the MMORPG news sites (or just for "A Tale In The Desert") there might be some linkage...

Look up Toon Town, There.com, Sims online, Myst online - all are non-violent in their nature (if you allow TT's pies and gags), though not quite as ambitious or experimental in their focus. I expect all of them to be quite big releases with potentially huge audiences - probably bigger than many combat-oriented ones like Shadowbane. (Ed.: sorry - TT *is* small, not big. It's live and has a free trial.)

I'm sure I'm forgetting some titles - everyone with $15 million to throw away wants to make a MMO these days it seems.

(My projects and ramblings...)

[edited by - Teodric on January 14, 2003 5:38:22 PM]

Another edit.... come to think of it, this thread was about "RPG", not "MMO". Sorry if I drifted off topic there for a bit.

[edited by - Teodric on January 14, 2003 7:10:37 PM]

Nope; we''re still here. We''re all playing P&P RPGs and FFVII, though. Everybody knows that MMORPGs are for power gamers and min-maxers.

By the way, Neverwinter Nights is one of the best online games ever created! I''m not sure why it isn''t the most popular RPG on Earth, because it ought to be!

The first thing that''s needed for real roleplaying in MMORPGs if they are to be designed for roleplaying:

Qualification A: Real-time microphone-based audio conversation. Without this, real MMORP Gs are just a dream. Most people can''t type 100+ WPM like us programmers, so without this, massive online roleplaying is just a dream.

Can anyone think of any other qualifications?

"Ph''nglui mglw''nafh Cthulhu R''lyeh wgah''nagl fhtagn!" - mad cultist, in passing