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My IDE idea!

Started by November 14, 2002 02:01 PM
46 comments, last by BradDaBug 21 years, 11 months ago
quote: Original post by BradDaBug
Let''s write a VC++ clone for Linux! Shoot, lets make it portable too, and make it for EVERYTHING!


to be sure there is a distinct lack of good IDEs for linux, at least nothing as good as the m$ one (by which i mean the virtual folders for all your source and stuff) but unfortunately i can''t be a$$ed to do anything about it what with university work, drinking and coding my game taking up all my time. but it would be really sweet to have a clone of the visual studio ide.
Cloning is not such a good idea. To be sure, MSVC is a very good IDE - and arguably Microsoft''s best product to date - but I think that attempting to emulate its featureset may lead to inadequacy by definition: the clone project will often lag behind in features (Anjuta, KDevelop, Dev-C++) and presents no compelling reason for adoption (revolutionary features, workflow improvements, tools integration) other than the zero-dollar price tag.

What do we desire from an IDE? What features do we want our IDEs to provide that they don''t currently? How is the current IDE UI paradigm incomplete or inadequate (continuous auto-save)?

If you''re going to build new software, aim for a category-killer.
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quote: Original post by Oluseyi What do we desire from an IDE? What features do we want our IDEs to provide that they don''t currently?


Tetris.
[size="2"]I like the Walrus best.
its already been done, type this under emacs ;-)
M-x tetris
Oluseyi, always the party pooper!

None of those IDE''s have the features I want. Anjuta doesn''t have virtual folders, so the hassle of managing huge projects outweighs the advantage of the IDE. Its easier to manualy create a makefile than to configure KDevelop to use SDL. Dev-C++''s linux support is really... well, you know.

What if people said "we don''t need another browser. We can''t make an IE clone. We have Lynx. That''s all we need." No Mozilla I guess.
I like the DARK layout!
Are you saying that Mozilla is an IE clone? I was under the impression that it supported a number of features that IE does not offer, which is hardly the hallmark of a clone ... Yes, they share a great deal of features, but then, they are different tools for the same task.
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OK ok! Bad example!

What I am trying to say is there''s no shame in trying to clone something. If we try to clone Visual C++ and have most of the features of it (autocomplete, virtual folders, etc) then it''ll be a good IDE.

And I think the reason for adopting a Visual C++ clone, in Linux anyways, is cause there''d be nothing else like it. Its like using Gimp in Linux instead of Photoshop...there''s just no other option.
I like the DARK layout!
quote: Original post by BradDaBug
Oluseyi, always the party pooper!

:P

quote: What if people said "we don''t need another browser. We can''t make an IE clone. We have Lynx. That''s all we need." No Mozilla I guess.

What if people said "The browser paradigm is now inadequate. We need a product and tools that go a step further. We need an application that gives the developer a blank slate on which to construct any form of dynamic interface they desire. We need visual tools that reduce the development process largely to drag-and-drop, with occassional coding for unique effects and the like. We need expressive but simple technologies that even novices can master and use to create impressive works..."?

"Clone" is an ugly word when the original is inadequate.

quote: What I am trying to say is there''s no shame in trying to clone something. If we try to clone Visual C++ and have most of the features of it (autocomplete, virtual folders, etc) then it''ll be a good IDE.

Plug-in based design with open specs, allowing for infinite customization and extension. This reduces the core code to a text editor, because everything else can be added - and replaced - as a simple plug-in. It delocalizes development, allowing multiple developers to work on seperate or complimentary features as appropriate on a completely independent basis.

quote: And I think the reason for adopting a Visual C++ clone, in Linux anyways, is cause there''d be nothing else like it. Its like using Gimp in Linux instead of Photoshop...there''s just no other option.

I''ve heard people advocating that the GIMP adopt a MDI-style backdrop frame to "group" all its windows together - like PhotoShop 6 does. In effect, these people suggest keeping the clone in sync with the original. Except that the original has taken a silly turn. MDI is a foolish paradigm because it forces the user to work in application-centric rather than document-centric fashion. OS X eschews MDI completely; it also encourages the use of a single menu bar and palette toolboxes if needed, as well as non-modal dialogs with verb button labels.

Cloning limits innovation, and as long as Linux/free *nix software simply mimics the follies of other platforms, specifically Windows, the chances of developing killer apps - the kind that motivate people to switch OSes, or at least catapult you into the spotlight - are effectively nil. I''m not saying we shouldn''t recognize and emulate genuinely good ideas; we should incorporate the good and eliminate both the bad and the unnecessary in the search for greater productivity and usability.

Modern software sucks. Big time. We as developers need to radically alter the way we think if we want to create truly usable products in the (near) future.
quote: Original post by Oluseyi

Plug-in based design with open specs, allowing for infinite customization and extension. This reduces the core code to a text editor, because everything else can be added - and replaced - as a simple plug-in. It delocalizes development, allowing multiple developers to work on seperate or complimentary features as appropriate on a completely independent basis.

Eclipse[1] has an architecture like that - however, there even the editor is considered a plugin. (Erich Gamma is one of the program managers for Eclipse)

[1]www.eclipse.org


God puts an apple tree in the middle of the Garden of Eden and says, do what you like guys, oh, but don''t eat the apple. Surprise surprise, they eat it and he leaps out from behind a bush shouting "Gotcha." It wouldn''t have made any difference if they hadn''t eaten it... because if you''re dealing with somebody who has the sort of mentality which likes leaving hats on the pavement with bricks under them you know perfectly well they won''t give up. They''ll get you in the end. -- Douglas Adams
--AnkhSVN - A Visual Studio .NET Addin for the Subversion version control system.[Project site] [IRC channel] [Blog]
quote: Original post by Arild Fines
Eclipse[1] has an architecture like that - however, there even the editor is considered a plugin. (Erich Gamma is one of the program managers for Eclipse)

[1]www.eclipse.org

''Nuff said. Now if it were developed in something other than Java (no offense, but I still find GUI-intensive Java apps slow... maybe Java interfacing with some lightweight native GUI scripting tool...)

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