Err.. this is kind of a weird discussion. Almost all of you guys are forgetting a really critical issue here: The ''person'' in First Person and Third Person perspective games does NOT refer to the character.. it refers to the player!!

A third person game means that the player (the person in question) is observing the character. Third and second person, in games and in literature, are similar; "Bob walks down the hall" (third person) and "you see Bob walk down the hall" (technically second person) have the same result. So in a game, you could say "You press some keys on the keyboard and Max Payne does a somersault in slow-mo as he flattens the gangster." That''s second person, but its to the same end as just saying "Max Payne flattens a gangster."

First person technically means that the player IS the player: "I walk down the corridor. I turn to the left and plaster the alien against the wall."

The problem is, the "persons" we''re referring to here are not visual perspectives, they are literary perspectives. It would probably be far more appropriate to say "Personal Perspective" vs. "Exterior Perspective" rather than 1st or 3rd Person perspective.

So no, its impossible to make a graphical game in the truly second person.


Brian Lacy
Smoking Monkey Studios

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brian@smoking-monkey.org

"I create. Therefore I am."

Usually in games, the idea is for the player to feel as if he/she IS the character. In which case, in the literary sense, all views are necessarily first person. "I" dive in bullet-time and shoot gangsters, is what I think when playing.

So, without abandoning existing terminology, we just take first person view to be from the character''s eyes and third from an external, disembodied view. Which only leaves a view embodied, but not in the player''s character.
The name 2nd person perspective may be inappropriate or misleading, but it''s still a neat idea.

I guess you have to realize that the terminology isn''t the literary terminology, because it just doesn''t translate well to non-text based games. Thoser my thoughts anyway.

Interesting, interesting - great feedback.

When playing games, the player assumes the role that they are the character, which, by definition, means that all games are set in the first-person perspective.

So, I assume, technically speaking in translating perspectives to the graphical representation of games, as was stated in one of the last posts, it''d be impossible to implement 2nd Person perspective, but...

...What if we changed the perspective from the game viewing stance; meaning, getting away from the "I saved the world", or "I got fifty frags", and changing it to the story perspective.

Hopefully my shoddy wording hasn''t confused my post''s point so far..

So what if we took a game, and instead of having the gamer be the main character on a quest to save the World, they''re a character in the party writing down recollections of the party''s progress - they''re still fully in control and seemingly the main character, but storywise, they''re viewing from a different perspective.

I think I''ll stop there, I''m starting to confuse even myself!

-SP

quote: Original post by Silent Player
So what if we took a game, and instead of having the gamer be the main character on a quest to save the World, they''re a character in the party writing down recollections of the party''s progress - they''re still fully in control and seemingly the main character, but storywise, they''re viewing from a different perspective.

Not a bad idea, but actually not original in the least. About the closest I think to come to what you are describing, is the type of perspective that occurs in role-playing games like Baldur''s Gate, where one character in a party represents the player more so than the other characters over which the player has control -- although I still find myself frequently thinking in terms of "I will now switch to this character, and then I will attack that monster." Nevertheless, its closer to what you''re describing.

There are times, while I''ve been playing a game which unfolds in the so-called "Third Person Perspective", when I''ve thought in terms of an entity outside of myself carrying out the actions I dictate -- most frequently, it occurs (fleetingly) during adventure games like The Curse of Monkey Island, where the main character literally has a personality of his own, and even on occasion takes the initiative to do something I wouldn''t have done myself (i.e., during cutscenes, or when I''ve solved a puzzle and the character completes the resulting actions in his own unique way).

Also, in strategy games -- where the player controls a large number of entities (a.k.a. units) within the game -- the player may not necessarily think of him/herself as being the one carrying out orders directly -- but he/she still invariably places themselves within the framework of the game. "I will now attack the enemy base with my 20 footsoldier units."

Ultimately, I believe the player will always associate her/himself directly with the actions she/he initiates, thus imbuing each and every game ever created with a first person perspective. This would seem to be a direct result of the interactive nature of games, because I know of no other medium (books, film, etc) where the individual -- the Experiencer, shall we say -- will consider her/himself a part of the experience to any degree.


Brian Lacy
Smoking Monkey Studios

Comments? Questions? Curious?
brian@smoking-monkey.org

"I create. Therefore I am."