Hey, what''s up. Remember a few months back when I was asking you all what your favorite card games were. Well at the time, I was in the making of a concept which I have researched, designed through, and created a design treatment for. The name of the game is "Clouds". We (Liquid Moon) are developing it for the PC and GBA. Let me know what you think (it''s not your typical card game that''s for sure). "Clouds" thanx for all feedback in advance. -Sage13 Liquid Moon Team Project X2

This sounds like a really good idea that would work well in a game. I wonder if it can be adapted to use normal playing cards? Even though your developing it as a computer game, have you thought of releasing the game as a card set (you know, printing out all those pretty patterns on the cards and selling them with the rules), cause it looks like a pretty good game.

Any way, good luck with the project.

I read through the design. Sounds great! Are you going to release a demo? I''d like to see this in action cause I don''t think I understand all of the game yet.

Thanx for the feedback!

Yes, we are currently making a demo version of the first stage of game on the Game Boy Advanced and we will proceed further from there.

Hey Taiyou, that sounds like a great idea. The only problem that would come in is the automated functions that would take place by the game, such as the clouds moving. Also keeping track of the absorbed cards, and value of other cards would be a whole new ball game.

The good news is that we are also making another game called "Clouds Adventures" that will be a graphical adventure game based off of the concept of Clouds.

Ok, thanx again for the look over, expect to see some sample gameplay by Early October.



-Sage13


Liquid Moon Team

Project X2

Interesting idea. I like it. But in the spirit of constructive criticism, some questions:

How far does a player normally move?

Roughly how big is a typical level (in spaces)?

Is there an active opponent, or does the tower card simply sit and wait for the player to win?

In the levels without obstacles, where does the challenge come in? It sounds like the player can wander around and eat other clouds continuously until he is strong enough to win. Since there are always new cards being spawned, there is always a source to grow from. Or am I missing something?

On a similar note, is it possible for the player to lose? If so, how?

Can you suggest an example where confronting a cloud (as opposed to merging) would be in the player''s best interest? The criteria seem to be the same (player stack is stronger).

If player with Green (4 and 4, totalling 8) confronts a single Green 3, which of the player''s cards is reduced, the top one or the lower one? What is left after a Blue 5 confronts a Green 5?

Are the levels random, semi-random, or pre-designed?


JSwing

Please fix your webpage, its not 800x600 friendly AT ALL =)

Hi j-Swing, thanx for the respond, here are the answers to the questions you were asking about:

"How far does a player normally move?"

Players can move 1 space at a time in any direction on the board directly around them.


"Roughly how big is a typical level (in spaces)?"

The size of levels depend on the difficulty of the cloud that players are facing, for instance, on hard mode (dry) Spaces can start at 15 and get up to as large as 64 spaces. On these levels with larger feilds,the camera focus'' on the general area of the player and a mini-map on the right hand side of the screen shows a small diagram of their position and other cards'' position on the map which they can view any area at any time.




"Is there an active opponent, or does the tower card simply sit and wait for the player to win?"

Near the end, clouds will beging to generate smaller clouds that can assemilate,move and affect the environment as you can, these clouds are essentially your enemeies. Stonger clouds are also an enemy of the player. If there are monster clouds or stonger clouds on the field, if the player crosses into a space next to them, the CAN confront with the player and destory them.





"In the levels without obstacles, where does the challenge come in? It sounds like the player can wander around and eat other clouds continuously until he is strong enough to win. Since there are always new cards being spawned, there is always a source to grow from. Or am I missing something?

On a similar note, is it possible for the player to lose? If so, how?"


It''s not quite as simple as the player moving around. Every time the player moves, they can force cards away from them (based on a percentage value and their strength). Other cards can merge with each other and become stonger clouds than the player. Those clouds being stronger, can choose to confront the player if they enter a certain range (here''s where the puzzle aspect comes in) Players will not be able to win if they cannot pass the monster clouds they created due to un-thought out movements. In the situation where the player cannot do anything to win, the game is over for them similar to solitare where you just don''t have the cards you need, and so they must give in and reset the stage.





Can you suggest an example where confronting a cloud (as opposed to merging) would be in the player''s best interest? The criteria seem to be the same (player stack is stronger).

Yes, for instance; If a player is nearing a weaker set of cards that surround a card almost as strong as the player, they may cause those cards to flush towards the opponants cardsand merdge with the cloud, making it stronger than the player and a threat. Choosing to confront a cloud means the player can stay in their space and simply eliminate the threat of that happening, the balance is they take damage from the cards they destory.



If player with Green (4 and 4, totalling 8) confronts a single Green 3, which of the player''s cards is reduced, the top one or the lower one?

The top one.


What is left after a Blue 5 confronts a Green 5?


Blue=Green 10 compared to Green 5

the green 5 will be destoryed and a Blue card will a partial damage value of 3 will remain. I am going to indicate this situation with an animated tutorial that shows the visual difference in cards that are partially damaged.

Are the levels random, semi-random, or pre-designed?


Pre-Designed, but I would like to impliment a feature that allows players to contruct their own map, as well as a two player mode.

Thanx for the question again, just let me know if you need anything else answered. I''ll be adding the next chunk of the design doc within the month, we are currently working on planning out the final specs for the game.

thanx

-Sage13



Liquid Moon Team

Project X2

Thx for the answers. I can see some interesting strategy required to play. But I''m still unclear on one bit, merging vs confronting.

quote:

---

Original post by Sage13

Can you suggest an example where confronting a cloud (as opposed to merging) would be in the player''s best interest? The criteria seem to be the same (player stack is stronger).

Yes, for instance; If a player is nearing a weaker set of cards that surround a card almost as strong as the player, they may cause those cards to flush towards the opponants cardsand merdge with the cloud, making it stronger than the player and a threat. Choosing to confront a cloud means the player can stay in their space and simply eliminate the threat of that happening, the balance is they take damage from the cards they destory.

---

This suggests that a player can confront a cloud without that cloud moving, but merging risks moving other clouds. Does confronting have a greater range?

I guess the other problem is the 1-to-1 trade off. Subtracting from the player''s strength or adding to an opponent''s strength by the same amount keeps the net result the same.

Per your example, the player is a Green 5 (G5), faced with a Green 4 (G4)and a Green 2 (G2). Assume that the player cannot directly get to the Green 4 (again, per your example).

Confronting the G2 leaves the player with a Green 3 facing an enemy G4. If instead the player moves and forces the two other clouds to merge, the player has a G5 facing an enemy Green 6.

If both cases, the player is left with a cloud that is one weaker then the opponent. The confrontation is also worse because it leaves the player weaker overall (in case there are some other small clouds around that might be absorbed).

To succeed the player must merge with at least one of the two other clouds.


If the sum of the other clouds is less than the player cloud, say two G2 clouds vs player G5, then it doesn''t matter if they merge or the player confronts, since the player can always survive. The optimum path, of course, remains to merge with everything you can.


I recognize that these are simple examples that may not hold up on an actual 2d board with mulitple other clouds. But I don''t quite see how confronting another cloud helps the player, since subtracting from the player strength or adding to another cloud strength keeps the same net result, and weakens the player relative to all other clouds on the board.

Another option would be some way to force two other clouds to confront each other, but that''s not much different (mathematically) from just merging with both of them.

Or am I just being thick-headed and missing something obvious?

JSwing

JSwing> I believe that the strategy aspect in merging vs confronting is - enemy clouds will move around and may merge together when you merge. Here is what he said:

quote:

---

It''s not quite as simple as the player moving around. Every time the player moves, they can force cards away from them (based on a percentage value and their strength). Other cards can merge with each other and become stonger clouds than the player. Those clouds being stronger, can choose to confront the player if they enter a certain range (here''s where the puzzle aspect comes in) Players will not be able to win if they cannot pass the monster clouds they created due to un-thought out movements. In the situation where the player cannot do anything to win, the game is over for them similar to solitare where you just don''t have the cards you need, and so they must give in and reset the stage.

---

So, if you are G5 and there are two G3s, you should confront one before they merge, otherwise they will be a G6, which you cannot pass. Or something like that, I''m sure its different with a whole board of cards.

Ok, here is a situation where the confrontation would be a wise option.

[Firstly though, yes, the player can confront a cloud from several spaces away (via a higher class’ reach, or attacking abilities such as lighting).]


Example:

Let’s say the player has 3 green class cards that total 15 (a realistic norm) and want to merge with a weaker G3 card trapped in a corner about 2 spaces away from them, but just above the space where the G3 resides is another G3. The player's top card is G6 so it could easily confront with the cloud and still be able to merge with the G3 and raise in level to a blue class (because of gaining 4 green cards which equals a max Altitude Meter for the green class). However, if the G3 card is near a set of three opponent green class cards equaling 10 (or any opponent equaling 10 for that matter), by moving to merge with the G3, the player may cause

1.) The G3 to merge with the set of Green Class Cards and become a blue class opponent card more dangerious to the player.

Or

2.) Possibly cause the G3 to near and merge or conflict with the G3 card in the player’s sights, which may eliminate the opportunity for the player to evolve.


Hence the player must think about the direct chain reactions of their moves.


Also, other clouds that are forced to move or enter the field through the player's level moving, CAN confront with the other cards. It is random, but on harder levels, the percentage of times that this happens will not be in your favor. “Clouds” is an ever changing environment that requires skill, strategy, and adaptation to all the situations you will be faced with.


Thanx again, please keep the questions coming. I'll update the treatment with this information and try to explain these parts better since I'm getting some questions about them.

thanx

-Sage13


Liquid Moon Team

Project X2



[edited by - Sage13 on August 23, 2002 12:54:02 PM]