Hi, I''m just starting work on a small game and I want to design some levels using a map editor so I have downloaded Quark and worldcraft. I haven''t decided what game engine I will be using yet (e.g. torque, quake III or whatever). The thing is that using these level editors you have to pick which game/engine you are developing for before you start map editing. How do I start to make maps without tieing myself to one game engine? I know that map entities are game specific so I wont be placeing these in my maps until later - I only want to make the actual level structures. Please help - I don''t want to spend time putting something together and then finding that I can use it.. thx

Please tell me how you plan on simply using the Quake III engine. Do you have some exuberantly large amount of money stored somewhere that you''re willing to spend on obtaining a license?

If you''re looking to design levels for existing games like Quake III, you''re going to need Q3Radient. Worldcraft does not support Quake III.

If you''re thinking you can simply use these game engines for your own..game creating purposes..you''re mistaken.

Activision owns the last set of licenses for the Quake III engine.

Yes I do have a lot of money. Anyway thats not really what I wanted to discuss. I''m not likely to use the quake engine - I picked 2 engines at random as example - torque which is ''free'' (ok royaly based) and quake which is expensive and not generally avaiable to the public.

No I don''t want to create levels for pre-existing games - did u actually read my post?

I want to design levels but dont want to commit myself to any specific graphics engine yet, I''m looking for advise on this subject.

Create your levels in a generic modeler and later (after deciding on an engine) import them to the map editor.

What generic modeller can I use for levels though? I know entity models e.g. .mdl, md2 etc. models are well supported by most graphics/game engines and many ''generic'' modelling packages can export them e.g. 3DS MAX etc.

But when it comes to modelling game levels or maps there doesn''t seem to be a generic option. You seem to have to choose which graphics engine you are making the map for and then use the appropriate Editor. I know there are 3DS MAX convertors which take 3DS scenes and turn them into maps for various games e.g. Quake .map file exporters but apparently they dont work very well.

Dude, listen. Just install an early version of WorldCraft that only supports Quake I (I believe 1.6?).

Learn the format of the .MAP files generated for Quake, they''re quite simple to use, and just implement the system in your game.

If you want to model levels as concept material - ie to plan and visualise the layouts, lighting, architechture, etc, then you might be best using a modelling package like 3D Studio - you can get nice visuals, a good idea of how architechture is going to work, etc. As regards actually converting the output to production material, I wouldn''t worry about it. Until you decide on an engine, you''ll be hard put to come up with finished material - all engines work differently, have different sturcutres + capabilities, etc. The two engines you mentioned, for example, are very different in terms of what they do and how they do it.

A Q3 engine lisence, btw, is something in the order of 3000 times more expensive than one for the Torque engine, and with very different terms of use. You might want to worry more about that kind of business stuff than level creation at the moment. That said, for level concept stuff, just use 3D Studio or another generic commerical modelling package.

Ty Neversaydie, that makes sense and seems like a good course to take. Still a bit of a pity if the work I make while designing can''t be used in the final game, but this seems to be the way it is

Munkie, I''ve got worldcraft 1.6 and like u say the quake I .map files do seem to be the most portable actual game level files. I can load them into things like 3d GameStudio and Quark and think I can probably convert them into other formats too. So thats another option thanks . They don''t support curved surfaces or much complexity though which is the only down side

Why not use the Quake II engine? It is free to use.