Like most gamers i''m sure im p****d off with the negative image gamers get from mostly everyone except fellow gamers, I hate it when I mention to people that I like playing games a lot and they give that look as if they think your a complete square! But arent we digging our own graves with games like warcraft 3, neverwinter nights, quake, mario etc. Most games these days are based around a geeky theme like blowing up demons and orcs and dragons and stuff, and lets not start on the italian plumber...WHAT? I''m not saying theyre bad games just not cool, infact I had trouble thinking of cool games, I could only come up with gta3, metropolis sr and stuff like that. Im a gamer thru and thru and always will b but im not a friggin geek and hate being stereotyped as one...sigh. Is there anyway out of this?

Complex subject area. It allows me to put forward one of the things I''ve been thinking about recently. I think that one problem is that games take so long to complete, and encourage the player to play them in sessions of about 1-2 hours at a time, if not longer. They are so ''serious'', you can''t just play for a few minutes.

This is a bit of a problem, as the longer you are spending on these games, the ''less'' time you have to do other more social things. What is the point of a form of entertainment media where you spend hours alone in your living room / bedroom? Most games are designed for ONE person, and it is very difficult to share the experience with other a lot of people. Unless you all play the game, and who wants to talk about computer games with their friends anyway?

Unfortunately, gamers and game developers are just as responsible for the "geek" stereotype as the average non-gamer, if not more so. The games that are developed has a little to do with it, but its not even that simple.

The Games genre grew up as a very geeky hobby, because back in the day anyone who owned a computer of any kind (and understood it) was pretty much considered a geek. Think of the people who started it all -- Gates is probably the best example of all, though other examples like Wozniac and so forth are good for comparison.

Anyway, in my opinion the BIGGEST reason that no one takes gamers seriously, is because a significant percentage of gamers don''t take their hobby seriously. And designers like John Carmack don''t help our cause -- I can''t find the quote, but Carmack mentioned in an article I read once that he thought it was ridiculous for people to consider games an "artform."

That mentality is precisely what holds us back. In fact, there ARE games that I would consider "art" -- but many of my fellow gamers would disagree. Deus Ex for instance -- a game whose story deeply explores the phenomenon of the Conspiracy Theory. Black & White -- a game that puts a gamers'' ego to the age-old test of Good vs. Evil. Gabriel Knight III -- a game that translates the ageless art of powerful novel-based story-telling into a game. I''d even venture games like No One Lives Forever, that are perhaps more light-hearted, almost tongue-in-cheek, yet still offer a compelling story.

I could go on, but I''ll truncate here and just say that I think people still consider gaming a "geeky" hobby because gamers and game professionals refuse to stand up and tout their hobby as one rivaling film as a medium for powerful, compelling, and thought-provoking story telling.

Oh, one more thought though -- are you the kind of gamer who is ashamed of his "geeky" hobby because everyone ELSE thinks it geeky? If you are, then who''s to blame? You should be proud of your hobby, or else how can you expect anyone else to be???


Brian Lacy
Smoking Monkey Studios
brian@smoking-monkey.org

Why does it matter if gamers are perceived as geeky? I didn''t buy Half-Life to identify myself with the in-crowd. And really, games are exceedingly geeky (to the general public). People wine about spending ten bucks on a movie and you demand respect after purchasing a $2k+ alienware and 50 bucks a game? I am not condemning you for wanting a bit more understanding. When I tell people I want to design games, let alone play them, I get dirty looks and luddite frowns. The Joe Bloggs on the street doesn''t respect Gates for his code (nor should they *cough*), he respects him for his money. Also, don''t expect really cool games to become an art form. Art status takes mass market saturation. Games can still be iconic; look at the success of the Atari T-shirts. And then there is the new artists who use a style based on "The Sims." Don''t ask for games to be Art when Deer Hunter still sells.

quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster

Oh, one more thought though -- are you the kind of gamer who is ashamed of his "geeky" hobby because everyone ELSE thinks it geeky? If you are, then who''s to blame? You should be proud of your hobby, or else how can you expect anyone else to be???


Brian Lacy
Smoking Monkey Studios
brian@smoking-monkey.org

Good point. But I still think quite a lot of games are geeky .

The short answer is: don''t let it bother you. If people judge you based on one thing you happen to like, then you don''t want to be around them anyways. I think girls tend to be the most guilty of that...just like if you mention you collect comic books. If people judge you based on simple things like that then they need to grow up. I think one of the funniest comments I ever got was from a girl I chatted with who finally got to meet me when she came to visit my homestate of Florida. She said, "wow, you sure don''t look like a computer guy". I''m 6'', 185lbs, 30yrs old, clean shaven, short hair and keep in good shape with martial arts, and exercise 4 times a week. I also dress relatively casually in Docker''s and Polos in the fall, and shorts and tank tops in the summer. I didn''t at all fit her conception of someone who worked in the IT field and who liked computer games, comics and toys. It just goes to show you how stereotypical people can be,

The long answer is: Like Brian said, games won''t be an art form until designers treat it as such. Computer games are still a relatively new medium, and designers have yet to really tap into its potential. It''s a lot like the comics field is/was. It''s only been relatively recently (mid 80''s) that comic writers took a hard look at serious issues in real life and tackled them in comics. But the problem is that the American people steadfastly see comics as an adolescent medium. In Japan however, there are manga and duojin books that comparetively outsell Newsweek and Time in American purchases. The Japanese consider comics and anime a legitimate art medium to tell story with. This is slowly happening in America, but it''s still taking awhile. Even series like Batman:TAS and Superman, while delivering top-notch and though-provoking storylines....are still rooted in comics. And therein you''ve already alienated lots of people because of the "adolescent factor". It''s up to game designers, development studios, and publishers to come up with games that push the medium into new directions. Ones that will make games more credible in the mainstream''s eyes.

Most of the people I have told that I was interested in game programming don''t give me weird or dirty looks, a lot of them even think it''s cool. Most of them people wouldn''t usually be considered geeks themselves, and of course the geeks always think it''s cool.

Anyway, I don''t care if people think I''m a geek or not, since I am. I don''t have the stereotypical geek look anyway, so most people don''t realize it until they get to know me a bit, and of course then they can''t get enough of me.

Geez, what kinda pepole think games aren''t kool?
I annouce the fact that I''m a game designer and love games, and I get nothing but respect for it. Everyone I''ve ever met thinks that''s outragious and exciting. Envy is usually in their eyes and so on.

From what I''ve research, a large percent of the general population play games, including women. According to a study done by the IDSA, 46% of women play consol games and 55% of Women account for the PC market. See the study here:

idsa.com

60% of all American play games. That number is probably not too far off as far as global gamers are concerned.

What''s NOT cool about it?

I will say this. Too Much of ANYTHING is bad. I think that;s the only real problem that gamers and developers alike have. They are soooooooo into it, that they may ignore things like bathing and general social activities. This is not good. Balance is needed in everything, including the koolest stuff.




Liquid Moon Team

Project X2

First off, no one should be ashamed about anything they do, as long as it''s not a bad thing. I think it''s better that games are geeky anyway, just to spite everyone who thinks they are. What''s so good about being cool, or acceptable? I think a lot that''s acceptable is bad. And I think it''s bad for our society that certain things are portrayed as geeky, or just not good. I''ll get straight to the point now, you know in Saved By The Bell being a nerd, is like a horrible thing. It shouldn''t be. Being a nerd is great. If you enjoy reading, or just learning in general, as a hobby or as the major reason you live, as opposed to enjoying sports, getting drunk, getting mad girls, it''s good. This can be extended to games or anything else considered geeky or nerdy. It shouldn''t matter to anyone else, and it certainly shouldn''t bother you.

- Andrew

Ive never really had the problem of being percieved a geek for playing games, when I was in highschool I programmed alot and learned to make games while also playing games. I played the real geeky ones to like final fantasy, baulders gate and the such. I still had a girlfriend I was on the football and wrestling team and was never called a geek. When you talk to people you have to think of what thier interest are. If you think that they will think playing games is geeky dont talk to them about it. My girlfriend never even knew I liked video games as much as I did let alone know how to make them because I knew she wasnt interested in that. I consider myself a computer nerd though, there is a difference between nerd and geek. a geek is someone who has no skills and is an outcast while a nerd usually has computer skills or science etc.. and is an outcast.