Yeah, actually that term ultraviolence is level in Doom, but what do you think about these almost sick games that are really messing with blood ''n'' guts. For example Soldier of Fortune or other way too violentic games that can cause bad problems for growing youth or kid? I''ll counter that tv-point immediatly; In tv there are really violentic movies too but they are in tv, you can''t touch em'' or enter into those characters, but like in SoF you can be the bad guy who kills blacks, skinheads, punks and ganstablastahs, but with realism. I understant older people like over 16 or 17 but not kids like under 16 or 15, of course as always individualistic differences. But what if neightbours ol'' flowerhat auntie(in my example she has menses) sees how Bill 14 years-old plays Ultraextremeletthebloodfly II and then she decides to start banning campain for all th'' bad game thathas bad affects to our youths, Youngster won''t even play football as they used to... What if this Bill orders submachine gun from internet and goes to local McDonalds and wastes everyone in there and couple of dudes outside? No big deal he is under 18 and that will do everytime... Of course most of people are normal and can play those game without any affects, but in huge crowd there are always some people who takes these games too seriously... They have said that TV causes bad affects for people who spents too much with them and it''s true, I agree, but think about games that are much more violentic than movies and you can identify yourself as psychopatic who kills inicent civilians or normal people. Most of you guys will think that I told you a huge piece of shit, but I bet that this topic is coming soon and when they start banning games I don''t want that they ban all games, just those that are the most violentic. I don''t want to defame SoF or any other games, they were just examples if you can bring more, bring... Comment, but I don''t want any comments like "Are you some sort of cissy fag?" or "Hey don''t play violentic games if you don''t stand", Well... I love to play violentic games but too much is always too much. Time comes, time goes and I only am.

I do not like unreasonably violent games. They just aren''t fun anymore. Blowing up civilians is not at all fun, because they haven''t done anything wrong. I think designers have lost the point, which is to kill "bad" people.

Violence, TV and games. Two recent studies have shown that games like Quake do not tend to make kids violent. There are numerous studies about violence on TV that give support to both sides on this subject so nothing conclusive can be said about that. One of the studies was made at St Helena, an island that got TV fairly recently. Researchers observed the kids a couple of years before and after TV was introduced on the island and could see no increase in the violence in schoolyards etc. Also, if you look at the world and compare the amount of violence in countries with and without TV, I''m sure you will see that countries with TV have much less violence.

However, it would not surprise me if games and movies would be banned in the US "because they cause violence". You Americans seem to want to attribute all the shootings that you have to anything but the high availability of guns in your society. Just look at the rest of the western world. We all have the same games and TV shows but we do not share your high murder rates and we do not share your lack of gun control. Japan probably has the worst violence (and SEX!) in their media but it also has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

Henry

i personally think that violence isn''t caused by violence in games, movies, or television. and while tougher gun laws would probably reduce school shootings and such (and i''m all for them because of that), that too isn''t the problem.
the problem lies in the minds of the people who commit those acts. Dungeons and Dragons has been blamed for some deaths.
The people who do these things do not have a firm grip on reality, plain and simple. People love to have someone to blame for problems, someone other than themselves.
"It''s because guns are too easy to get." How would that cause a person to be violent? It just gives them a more destructive means to ''express themselves''.
"It''s because there''s too much violence in the media." Again, anyone with a firm grip on reality can seperate the fantasy world of games and movies from the real world.
And as long as these are seen as the root of the problem, no effort will be put into fixing the real problem.
There''s more I wanted to say, but I''m finding it difficult to think in this computer lab.. everyone talking about their CS projects, working on them together, am I the only one who follows the rules and does them by myself?

When DOOM came out, gore in games was still new and cool. Now it''s not really that anymore, and it''s getting hard to get more violent than some of the existing games - adding more red particles/pixels just doesn''t work anymore. In fact, I''d say that REAL violence in games is still to come - when that happens and we can really see on our lil'' screens what a gunshot from close by does to someone''s head, I believe this discussion will look all different.

Damn those bastards for making Sim City. Our kids are becoming arsonists when they identify with the families that die in the fires that rage through the towns they construct.

Games, books and movies require conflict. Even peaceful games like Sim City have catastrophies. I have killed a lot more creatures while playing EverQuest and Command & Conquer than I have while playing Quake so to call RPGs and RTSGs non-violent is very wrong. The statement that ''violence sells'', or more correctly ''conflict sells'', is a truth as old as art.

The difference you might make between the games would be that kids supposedly identify more with FPS rather than other kinds of games. This is what they have studied when they have studied Quake and other FPS games and the studies show that the kids identify with the competitive aspect of the game and can separate the games from reality.

Henry