quote: Original post by Waverider
Should I limit the fire angle to 90 degrees forward to force the player to use their noggin, or allow full 360 degree aiming to make it easier for attacks? (Not considering the redesign of the hud that would be necessary)

I personally think it should be allowed 360 degree rotation.

As some of the others stated, a buggy isn''t exactly an attack vehicle. However, if a vehicle of any sort is going to have an attack capability, it shouldn''t be hampered (especially not a "weaker" vehicle like a buggy). I''d hate to have a 90 degree angle to work with because that would require having to move the vehicle into a position that would allow firing of the weapon at the enemy. If I were fleeing from the enemy and the weapon has only a 90 degree firing angle behind me, what if an enemy/destructible object drives/falls/appears in front of my escape route?

I won''t lock the design at a 90 degree forward arc. I would like to test both circumstances, though. I''ll look forward to providing a beta and getting more feedback that way.

I''m mostly concerned about the 360 degree being exploited by circle strafing and other cheese tactics. I guess I should come up with ways to counter that. There will be plenty of other offensive units within the game, so maybe I''m analyzing it too deeply and trying too hard to fix it.

Thanks again for the insights.

Umm actually I''m not sure how well this will fit into a RTS. Are you planning on having many different units under the player''s control at the same time? If so it will be harder (and suicidal) for them to have to do so much micromanagement for a single unit. Its a nice concept but one thats suited more for tactical or FPS then an RTS.

Umm yes it is an RTS

And it''s one that could have complexity to it, but I figure since it''s been in my head for a while now, I should seriously consider at least putting something moderately playable together to test out the idea.

In a multiplayer fashion, one player may be in a command station giving orders to AI units while players on the same team are piloting craft.

In a single player fashion, the player may exchange between being a commander and being in a craft. But that might not be so feasible. I won''t know until I try it.

the original battlezone (well not the original but the original remake :> had the same style of gameplay, where you could command everything around you but also could take to the seat of various vehicles. While it didn''t sell well... it was a great game!

Yes it was a great game.

Battlezone 2 came out shortly afterwards, and my ideas for this game were inspired from both of them, since I wasn''t quite satisfied with the way Battlezone 2 was handled.

quote: Original post by Waverider
I''m mostly concerned about the 360 degree being exploited by circle strafing and other cheese tactics. I guess I should come up with ways to counter that. There will be plenty of other offensive units within the game, so maybe I''m analyzing it too deeply and trying too hard to fix it.

I personally would worry about circle strafing as too much an issue if the units are balanced with regards to firepower and armor. A heavier, less manouverable unit with stronger armor and weapons should have no problem taking out a small scout, so circle-strafing wouldn''t be a particularly good tactic. And if the unit is vulnerable to the scout, it should have similar defencive/manouverablilty capabilitys to make it an even match.

That said, though, the design of the scout should probably encourage the player to avoid any serious skermishes anyway...unless you had some other plans for its use...

Perhaps this could be done by having the player having the player have to decide between driving and attacking - if the player is driving, the AI will control the weapon completely (at, say 50% accuracy), and if the player is controlling the weapon, the vehicle is stationary. That way, circle-strafing and the like are less likely to be used since the AI is not going to be inflicting a lot of permanent damage on enemies, but it will be doing enough to slow them down a little to aid your escape.

Another thing you could do with the scout is add a zoom to the weapon, so that you can use the scout to spy on a location further away. That view would only be available when in weapon mode, obviously...

Anyway, the game sounds like an interesting idea. I never played Battlezone, but it looked pretty cool.

Never play leapfrog with unicorns.

A zoom camera - interesting idea.

In a game like Tribes2 or other games that are PURELY 3D, this would be, I think, a viable addition.

The game I''m planning, though, will depend more on a populated radar screen for situational awareness, because ultimately it is the commander at a command station that will be ordering the units around. The zoom camera might help the driver see things more clearly, but it wouldn''t make a tactical difference. If you can see things at a distance, it wouldn''t really help to see them any closer.

But if it helps the DRIVER fire more accurately (in the case of a human player driving the scout), then maybe there would be a use for it.

Good idea!

Here''s a few random thoughts (sorry if someone already mentioned them) :

*Regarding the mine/grenade thing, it depends to some extent on the type of gameplay. Other than dealing with pursuit, mines are mainly a strategic weapon ("area denial" I think the term is). So if it''s a strategy game, then using the buggies as high speed minelayers might make a nice secondary function, at least until the player builds specialised mine laying hardware. For combat situations, a MK19 style grenade launcher would certainly be nice, and computer assisted aiming sounds like a good idea, especially if you''re going to implement a good phsysics system (bouncing over hills and all that).

*Ideally make the weapon load customisable - eg, choice between a heavy machine gun, a TOW style anti-armour weapon, some kind of anti-air armament, etc. This would make the buggy a very versatile vehicle (Humvee style), even once the player builds/obtains or researches better gear.

*As regards control, 360 degree aiming would be good - a lot of the time you see somebody standing in the back or in a turret firing behind the vehicle. One solution might be to have a driver and a gunner, and let the player swop places with the AI as desired - I think Halo does this.

*Re the circle stafing problem, this should be avoidable. Just tweak the manuverability of the turret/gun mount. If you use the two man crew idea mentioned above, whoever is crewing the gun might have to shuffle round in a circle to track targets outside his FOV, thus slowing down target acquisiton outside 90 degress or so. Even if the turret has an electric drive, you can slow it down as needed, while still keeping the vehicle as nippy as you want, independant of the turret.

My plan is the make the scout's turret system controlled (either automatically or manually), and have the scouts fit a single person only at the driver's seat.

There isn't really a time set or actual technology scheme for the game except to have detailed information display technology and craft maneuverability. I like the explodability of standard weaponry, though, so that's all that's really available.

The craft won't really resemble anything we use in real life, except to have a more high tech practical look to them.

I'll keep the option open to customize and research better weapons for the scout. I need to be careful just how many elements to add to the game, because it could get very complicated. Maybe in some ways that's a good thing. The player can make things as complicated as they want for themselves as long as they can handle it. The downside is that the players that can handle the most details at one time will likely be the winners.

[edited by - Waverider on May 24, 2002 12:31:39 PM]