I'm debating on whether or not to go forward with a game idea I've had baking for a long time. It's a 3D military RTS style with what I think is an interesting implementation of fog of war, which I will not yet reveal, because that is not the point of this particular post. The game will have all sorts of vehicles - scout buggies, tanks, anti-aircraft guns, heavy assault hovercrafts, light jets, walkers, and transport ships, to name most of them... For right now, though, I just wanted to talk about the scout buggy: * I'm planning on it having maneuvering jets for when it jumps into the air so it doesn't land on its side (controllable by the player.) * It will also have a light machine gun on a turret on its topside that can fire in a forward 90 degree arc that automatically tracks the current target * I was debating on giving the buggy either a small grenade launcher or a mine dropper. I'm thinking the grenade launcher might be a little more useful For the most part, the scout buggy is really only good for scouting out areas and taking out other scout buggies and possibly the base builder units. I'm planning on giving the buggy AI so that computer-controlled buggies can fight, but I'm primarily concerned right now with the fun factor for a player that actually drives one of them. Does this design idea sound adequate? I was also figuring there could be two possible camera views (In the cockpit and over the shoulder), with a smart HUD to display target status. For the buggy, a lead shot reticle would be redundent, but I'm thinking about placing a "current aim point" of the auto-tracking weapons so the player can decide when to fire without actually aiming, since the gun (and the grenade launcher if I include it) will track targets on their own. The reason I do it this way is because scout dogfights will be very frantic and it would be impossible to actually AIM with the view bouncing all over the place. Any feedback, ideas, on how to improve it? Any and all insight or feedback is appreciated. Thanks! - WaveRider [edited by - Waverider on May 21, 2002 11:28:12 AM] [edited by - Waverider on May 21, 2002 11:29:11 AM]

Perhaps you could give it a grenade launcher/mine dropper COMBO, ie, the weapon that lobs the grenades could also drop the explosives and arm them as a proximity mine or perhaps a timebomb or whatever.

Ah, you mean choose whether or not the bomb explodes on impact or becomes a movement sensing device that lasts for a time... interesting idea.

(You know a buggy is chasing you so you run around a corner and blanket a small area with some sensor mines and then act as bait. BOOM)

To do so I would need the ability to aim and fire weapons without having anything targeted. You can actually aim the weapon at that point. Hmm... having an enemy targeted solved the problem of having to aim, but now to fire without a target the player has to worry about maneuvering AND aiming. Maybe a button can toggle between the control of the weapons and control of the maneuvering, but with an enemy targetted, all controls go to maneuvering...

I would like the game to be controllable by mouse/keyboard or joystick/keyboard. I want to plan for those users that don't have the 100 button 4-stick joystick outfits. I play with a plain old 2-button joystick myself and use the keyboard for everything else.

I know I'm just spitting thoughts out loud here. Does toggling between aiming and maneuvering sound like a good option? Or should I bind manual maneuvering of the turrets and weapons to some other keys so that the player can always maneuver and aim if desired? (and then hit another control to get the weapons to auto-track targets again)

- Waverider


[edited by - Waverider on May 21, 2002 1:08:17 PM]

The toggle between auto-tracking and manual aiming sounds like a good idea. Also perhaps you should include some feature that allows you to switch targets without going into manual for when the scout in in a mass melee with many targets to shoot. Something like target nearest, next visible target and previous target (something like the targeting computer in the X-Wing games) would be workable.

The ability to select a new target will always be active. That will be universal among all the vehicles.

I don''t know how long it will take to get a buggy jumping around on terrain to test out the ideas, but thanks for the feedback. This post will go into my design folder

quote: Original post by Dan DAMAN
The toggle between auto-tracking and manual aiming sounds like a good idea. Also perhaps you should include some feature that allows you to switch targets without going into manual for when the scout in in a mass melee with many targets to shoot. Something like target nearest, next visible target and previous target (something like the targeting computer in the X-Wing games) would be workable.

Dungeon Siege has similar targeting: Attack Nearest, Attack Strongest, Attack Weakest.
I agree that there should be a toggle for manual or automatic aim. If I''m in a buggy being chased by god knows what, I''ll switch that mofo on auto and let it take care of my pursuers while I drive to safety. Alternatively, manual aim would be nice if I were to drive atop a grassy knoll and use my l33t grenade launching skills to get a few frags. Or perhaps the enemies are out of sight and I''d have to bounce a grenade off a building to hit them. That''d be kinda tricky for automatic aim to accomplish.

You make a good point about attacking pursuers. I actually was only planning on having the turret and launcher fire in a forward arc, otherwise a player could get really annoying driving in a circle around a target constantly firing at it without being hittable.

Should I limit the fire angle to 90 degrees forward to force the player to use their noggin, or allow full 360 degree aiming to make it easier for attacks? (Not considering the redesign of the hud that would be necessary)

Just a thought, but to me having a gun that could only point forwards on a scout buggy is weird, I would have thought that the scout buggy would be used to scope out terrain and not to attack (am I wrong in this? could be ). The only way a gun like that would be useful is if you were driving towards the target (probably a bad idea in a scout vehicle?).

I think a scout vehicle would most likely be running away from any potential targets and so 360 degree arc or purely defensive armaments makes more sense.

I wanted to give it a rudimentary offensive capability, mostly against other buggies and weak units. But I also wanted that battle to be challenging and fun.

From a functional standpoint, a backwards-facing turret makes more sense, but there isn't a lot of player control that way. It's one of those elements of realism that I think would take away from the gaming experience.

Does that make any sense? Or would a forward-facing gun frustrate the player too much? (Remember, enemy scouts have the same handicap)


[edited by - Waverider on May 22, 2002 3:23:18 PM]

us army humvees have a lot of configurations, those with a heavy machine gun turret on top can fire all around(360 degrees), I think

some special ops use a dune buggy that is incredible fast and well-armed, I can''t remember the firing arcs of the onboard weapons

I remember hearing about a few raids in WWII, in the desert I believe, where the attackers got a few jeeps and had a machine gun in the back, then they rode down an airfield, firing to the side as they went past a bunch of planes, destroying them all, and completely out of ammo when they left-good thing they were fast

it''s weird about a lot of video games, no military vehicle usually has one person doing everything, yet video games expect them to,