But it doesn''t seem to work out that way. A lot of linux users claim to buy ports, but the numbers don''t bear that out.

Neverwinter Nights will be an interesting experiment. It''s the first game (I think) that is going to have a linux version on the release CD. I hope Bioware gathers some stats about how many people install what.

Take care,
Bill

Don''t get me wrong, I''m not telling you to not make a linux game. As I said, I prefer Linux as a development environment, and if I can pick up a percentage point or two by making a linux version available, then that''s great. But you can''t look at linux as a viable market, because it''s not.

Take care,
Bill

quote: Original post by Siebharinn
Don''t get me wrong, I''m not telling you to not make a linux game. As I said, I prefer Linux as a development environment, and if I can pick up a percentage point or two by making a linux version available, then that''s great. But you can''t look at linux as a viable market, because it''s not.

Take care,
Bill

I can see your point if we were only looking at today. It is true. I also keep remembering what one of my college prof''s said to me in 1987(first year in school) and I quote, "Don''t waste your time trying to program games on your computer. They are a fad and will not be a viable source of income. Computers are for business and science." I believe that today Linux is more of a test ground but with outstanding potential. Windows is already at the top and will more than likely stay there but I believe competition is a good thing, so if the Linux community does mature in this area it will be good for them and it will also be good for Windows users since competition always seems to force the best products to rise to the top. If I had my way about it, EVERY system would have dedicated gaming API''s that were generic from system to system. (pipe dream)

GRELLIN

CGP | IYAOYAS | Linux.com | Linux Game Development Center

Don''t fear the penguin!

quote: Original post by Siebharinn
But it doesn''t seem to work out that way. A lot of linux users claim to buy ports, but the numbers don''t bear that out.

Neverwinter Nights will be an interesting experiment. It''s the first game (I think) that is going to have a linux version on the release CD. I hope Bioware gathers some stats about how many people install what.

Take care,
Bill

Is this true? Is Neverwinter really going to have a Linux version on the release???? Man, that''s going to be incredible if it''s true..



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quote: Original post by Cyberdrek
Is this true? Is Neverwinter really going to have a Linux version on the release???? Man, that''s going to be incredible if it''s true..

That''s what I''ve heard too. Early on they said they were thinking of doing a BeOS release too, but you can guess what probably happened to that plan...

From the the NWN FAQ:

"The BeOS version of Neverwinter Nights will not be completed. However, we are planning a simultaneous PC/Macintosh/Linux release for Neverwinter Nights, with all three versions to be included in a single box. On the PC, Neverwinter Nights will run under Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows 2000 Service Pack 2, and Windows XP."

Take care,
Bill

quote: A large proportion of a small percentage is still a small percentage.

Yes, but how small of a percentage is it really? Not only do games keep a large number of linux users with Windows on their machines, but it also prevents a lot of people from trying linux in the first place (yes, I know it''s not the biggest reason, but it is one of them). So honestly, if you continue to develop products that are cross-platform that compete with MS Office, etc., AND you have games available for both platforms (plus the growing ease of use of Linux systems with window managers such as KDE3), we could see a growth of linux in general.

In other words, it''s a self-fulfilling prophecy: make games work on linux, and the linux market share will increase.

Some might argue that this was proved otherwise by Loki''s failure, but I say that is not true. After all, Loki''s ports did not come out until MONTHS (in many cases) after the windows version was out. Because of this, many dual-booters chose to buy the windows version rather than waiting for a linux version, and therefore, Loki was doomed to fail from the beginning.

The moral of the story: Linux can have a decent market share for games. It only first requires that more games be developed for it.

rm -rf /bin/laden

The Loki experiment proves nothing and was doomed from the get-go. Much more interesting is the id Software experiment. They have found that Linux is a completely non-viable commercial platform with their box-set release of Quake 3 Arena (tin box and all) for Linux - a fiscal failure. Linux users simply don''t have the critical gaming mass to make it worthwhile for developers, or at least didn''t at the time. NWN will give us info on whether that has changed. id Software, meanwhile, elects to continue to release free, unsupported Linux binaries as their show of support for Open Source.

The real question is then why Linux users don''t have critical gaming mass. The answer lies mostly in the non-unified graphics acceleration architecture for Linux (DRI is still maturing), which means that many users with lower end systems can''t get even the measly hw accel their cards do support, much less shaders and so forth. The failure of Linux gamers to support Linux-only or Linux-first releases with their purchases (I recall a mature-themed - cops, sex, violence, gore - Sierra-esque point-n''-click adventure game released first for Linux; poor sales) has also made developing for Linux an unprofitable proposition for publishers and developers alike. Developing on Linux, OTOH, is actually quite common practise.

Give it a few years. More mature DRI (or everybody switching to Nvidia/ATI exclusively), better vendor support and better consumer hardware will allow the Linux games market to finally show signs of growth, and that will cause a near-immediate rush to develop and publish for Linux. Patience, my fellow penguins.

quote: Original post by Oluseyi
The Loki experiment proves nothing and was doomed from the get-go.

Yeah, after the fact it turns out Loki was lead by an incompetent .

quote: Original post by Oluseyi
They have found that Linux is a completely non-viable commercial platform with their box-set release of Quake 3 Arena (tin box and all) for Linux - a fiscal failure.

I thought Loki did that too?

Can somebody explain to me why SDL is the lowest common denominator? I''m under the impression that it is quite a thin layer, and for OpenGL it is no overhead at all. If somebody can convince me otherwise, please do.

Brad