But what fun would it be if you don''t plumb the depths of an OS?

I think to truly get the most understanding out of a system and how it works, you need to get under the hood. I''m just a beginning programmer, but I have some networking experience with Windows and some modest batch and scripting knowledge with it.

What intrigues me about Linux is you really can get under the hood and poke around. Yeah, it''s daunting, but it''s fun too. That''s why Linux isn''t for the faint of heart. You can just leave everything alone and use a ready to use distro, but I think after awhile you''ll start missing things and it''s a good idea to poke around...even from the beginning.

For example, try to compile from CVS using rsync, or as a developer, figuring out what "foo" is. Man, if I could figure out how to find dependencies and compile half the stuff I''d like to download...half my battle would be over. But that''s exactly what makes Linux fun Maybe I''m a masochist, but as my grandfather said, "if it comes easy in life, it wasn''t worth it". And as a developer, figuring out what libraries you''ll need, and assuming whether your users will have it or not to make them static .a libraries or shared .so libraries when setting linking options is crucial (I still don''t really understand how to link libraries). And Linux''s library dependency hunt is legendary (which is why I made the post about Gentoo...hopefully it has a system that will alleviate alot of this pain).

I think at heart, most if not all programmers are tinkerers. WE like to change something and see how it affects it. That''s what''s so awesome about Linux. It''s all there for the world to see. For a beginner, I think you do have to dive deeper into Linux than a casual user would. At my work, we have people that are so computer illiterate, that they honestly don''t know the difference between CPU and computer, and the difference between the power button on their monitor and the power button on their PC (God strike me dead if I''m exaggerating). For people who just need to get on the net, look at mail, and write reports, they will find Linux just as easy to use as Windows, and in fact, installing Linux is easier once you get past the partion problem. But as developers, I think you really do have to take a peek at how things work in Linux. Admittedly, it''s good to at least get a basic grasp before diving in head first, but I think its the quickest way to learn.

And back on the track of the post, I''d recommend 3 partitions. The first will be your swap partition...which generally speaking they should be about twice the amount of RAM in your system. Next, would be a /boot partition of about 100-250MB. The last will be your / partition that everything else gets mounted to. As for file system types, go ext3 if you can or XFS. I''ve heard ReiserFS can be unstable on some distros, so you may want to stay away from that.

quote: Original post by Dauntless
I think to truly get the most understanding out of a system and how it works, you need to get under the hood. I''m just a beginning programmer, but I have some networking experience with Windows and some modest batch and scripting knowledge with it.

It''s easy to say you did some networking with windows. Heck, even my mom and dad can say they know how to do basic networking with windows. Can''t say the same with Linux though.

quote:
For example, try to compile from CVS using rsync, or as a developer, figuring out what "foo" is. Man, if I could figure out how to find dependencies and compile half the stuff I''d like to download...half my battle would be over. But that''s exactly what makes Linux fun

Finding dependencies can be easy if you know where to look for them. Of course, you can do a search on what ever search engine you want for "rpmfind", although, if I remember correctly, I think their address is www.rpmfind.net or something like that. You can find any rpms you want. I think it can even find tar.gz or tgz files but I''m not sure. Most of the time when you download programs and try to compile them, they will tell you which dependencies are missing, note them down, go to RPMFIND and search for the files they told you. Download the rpms and rpm -ivh them to install. Once that''s done, recompile your code and thats it. As for CVS, once you''ve downloaded everything, run ./autoconf.sh and then ./configure && make && make install and there you go. Sorry If my post is all condensed into one, I''m in a hurry as I have to leave for classes in 2 minutes.

Anyhow, hope this helps you out. Oh and btw, if you want to learn more stuff, get informed about LUGs(Linux User Groups) in your area. They tend to have some in most regions.




"And that''s the bottom line cause I said so!"

Cyberdrek
danielc@iquebec.com
Founder
Laval Linux

/(bb|[^b]{2})/ that is the Question -- ThinkGeek.com
Hash Bang Slash bin Slash Bash -- #!/bin/bash

Well, I''m no Windows networking guru, but my skills are beyond the mom and pop home network I work for a bank in their IT helpdesk. It''s a NT and W2k setup with a hybrid Multiple Domain setup. NT users authenticate to and get permissions from a PDC, and the W2k users authenticate to a Active Directory server which is trusted by the PDC...so they get the best of both worlds. We run WAN links (T1) lines to banks across the nation, and we have to do some limited troubleshooting with Cisco 1750 routers. Not CCNA type stuff, but some very basic QoS issues.

I know a bit about Windows Scripting Host (WSH), and have had to alter or make some scripts for the basic Tier1 help desk guys to use since they are so crippled in functionality (they aren''t even allowed access to the Active Directory for user managers...so if a W2k user gets locked out...tough, they have to wait for one of the senior IT admins to unlock them). I know a bit about poledit, and locking down computers at the registry level.

So I think I am a bit more knowledgeable than most about windows networking, though admittedly, I''m not even journeyman level probably.

I''m tinkering around with a Linux homenetwork though. I have three machines that I''m thinking about converting all to Linux. But what''s confusing me is Samba and NFS/NIS. Routing and Domain Naming doesn''t seem overly complex with Linux (and I''m learning how to muck around in the /etc/hosts and /etc/resolv.conf file rather than use something easy like Yast2). But I still haven''t had a chance to play around with it yet. I really want to wait until I move and get a place with an ISP that offers static IP. That way I can finally host my own webserver, and with 3 machines, I can practice actually making a Linux router (one machine as a multihomed router, and the other two on two different subnets with different netmasks).

But really though, networking isn''t my interest. At first I was, but then I discovered programming. Starting in the fall I''m going back to school in CIS, since networking just really isn''t what I thought it would be. I''m also preaching the benefits of Linux at work. I''ve long been an admirer of it, even if I''ve only recently (within the last 6 months) started using Linux.

If you just want to instal Linux but not learn about Linux it''s your choice and we will respect our decision, but then you won''t have much options: One way to do it ( I''m sure there are plenty of other ways ) is to instal RedHat7.1 or 7.2 as the only operating system on your harddrive and with just 2 partitions ( the minimum number for Linux ), /root and /swap.
so:
1) Boot from your windows diskette and run fdisk to erase all your Windows partitions
2) Reboot from your Linux CDROM and if your hard disk is really empty ( as it should be because you erased the Windows partitions and weren able to instal any Linux one ) Redhat will give you the option to automaticaly partition the drive just creating the /root and /swap partitions. you won''t have to use Linux fdisk or Diskdruid.
If the automatic installation process send you to Diskdruid it''s because you have any partition left on hour Harddisk.
I STRONGLY advise you to visit linuxnewbie.org, or buy a reference book like Running Linux ( from O''Reilly )

Good luck

quote: Original post by Dauntless
Well, I''m no Windows networking guru, but my skills are beyond the mom and pop home network I work for a bank in their IT helpdesk. It''s a NT and W2k setup with a hybrid Multiple Domain setup. NT users authenticate to and get permissions from a PDC, and the W2k users authenticate to a Active Directory server which is trusted by the PDC...so they get the best of both worlds. We run WAN links (T1) lines to banks across the nation, and we have to do some limited troubleshooting with Cisco 1750 routers. Not CCNA type stuff, but some very basic QoS issues.

I know a bit about Windows Scripting Host (WSH), and have had to alter or make some scripts for the basic Tier1 help desk guys to use since they are so crippled in functionality (they aren''t even allowed access to the Active Directory for user managers...so if a W2k user gets locked out...tough, they have to wait for one of the senior IT admins to unlock them). I know a bit about poledit, and locking down computers at the registry level.

So I think I am a bit more knowledgeable than most about windows networking, though admittedly, I''m not even journeyman level probably.

I''m tinkering around with a Linux homenetwork though. I have three machines that I''m thinking about converting all to Linux. But what''s confusing me is Samba and NFS/NIS. Routing and Domain Naming doesn''t seem overly complex with Linux (and I''m learning how to muck around in the /etc/hosts and /etc/resolv.conf file rather than use something easy like Yast2). But I still haven''t had a chance to play around with it yet. I really want to wait until I move and get a place with an ISP that offers static IP. That way I can finally host my own webserver, and with 3 machines, I can practice actually making a Linux router (one machine as a multihomed router, and the other two on two different subnets with different netmasks).

But really though, networking isn''t my interest. At first I was, but then I discovered programming. Starting in the fall I''m going back to school in CIS, since networking just really isn''t what I thought it would be. I''m also preaching the benefits of Linux at work. I''ve long been an admirer of it, even if I''ve only recently (within the last 6 months) started using Linux.

I see. Being a network specialist/admin, I can relate. Although, I''ve never really worked for a helpdesk, unless my 2years for an ISP tech support, back in 96, counts as a helpdesk job( not verry techy though, telling people that their the ones with the problem when the ISP is at fault for messing up their modems isn''t really a good tech job ). Anyhow, all this to say, if you plan on using Linux on a network, forget what you''ve learned about how to do stuff the Microshaft way. Linux has it''s own way of doing things and I have to say, it may be a bit harder to set up but once it''s running, it''s actually way better than Windows( the networking part I mean, as for the OS part, we all know it''s better than Win. ) But I have to give credit to Microsoft for one thing though, I wanted to try using ICS from Windows to share it''s connection with Linux thinking it probably wouldn''t work seeing as M$ doesn''t want to have anything to do with Linux but to my surprise it worked. Anyhow, you can read about how I did it in the Gentoo post...




"And that''s the bottom line cause I said so!"

Cyberdrek
danielc@iquebec.com
Founder
Laval Linux

/(bb|[^b]{2})/ that is the Question -- ThinkGeek.com
Hash Bang Slash bin Slash Bash -- #!/bin/bash

quote: Original post by Palidine
at the risk of inciting a distro flame war....

i''ve heard that mandrake is an easy newb distro to install. search for it on google.

as for clearing windows, deleting partitions and formatting the drive is good nough.

as far as what partitions to set up, that also incites a flame war. but for fun, i''m just using one 500MB partition for memory swap space and the rest is one root partition for the OS

-me

[edited by - Palidine on April 5, 2002 7:04:31 PM]

In case you''d like, www.distrowatch.com is way better than doing a simple search for a distro, you get to know which distros are still being worked on. It''s actually a pretty good site and you can get some info on most distros they have as they also point you to the website of the distros... Anyhow, just thought you''d like to know about that site...