I’m working on a skill system where each character statistic has an opposite Take these 2 examples :. Strength(STR) would be the opposite to Intelligence(INT) Agility(AGI) would be the opposite to Dexterity(DEX) Lets say the character has 100 skill points in each stat 400 in total 100 STR, 100 INT, 100 AGI, 100 DEX We need to represent both the short term fatigue associated with doing something and the long term gains through experience. Take this simplistic scenario (the numbers are exaggerated to show the principle). You start a fight with STR of 100 and INT of 100. It takes you 10 swings of your sword to win the fight and each swing removes 5 points from STR and saves it in a Stamina pool. At the end of the fight your STR is 50 the stamina pool is 50 and INT is 100. As you rest the 50 STR is gradually returned from the stamina pool along with say 1% from INT which is doubled to make 10 points. When fully rested you STR would be 110 STA 0 INT 95. 1% of the stamina pool was taken from the opposite stat doubled to represent an experience gain. The characters hit points would be directly related to the number of skill points. So far I have concentrated on fighting but all skills (even running) would work on the same principle initially getting tired running but gaining in associated stats in the long term. what do you think ?

why take away from str? can''t you just take away from sta and have a damage multiplier attached to it? Have a .95 multiplier to damage per swing. I''m assuming that''s why you''re taking away str to reduce damage. your just becoming more fatigued to utilize your full str.

and use a separate buffer variable for skill learning. x number of swings times some multiple per tick. course there should be some cap on that. maybe have diminishing returns for the number of swings in your buffer. 5 swings increases str by 1, 10 increases by .9 and so on and so forth. or have that directly linked to your sta and the less sta you have the less you''ll gain. maybe have an optimal range in the middle. in the beginning have a multiple of .5 showing your just starting, have a multiple of 1 a few swings later your starting to learn something then multiple of .2 towards the end to show that your starting to get too fatigued to learn much. that could work for other skills too... lockpicking (maybe have a longer optimal range since it''s not as strenuous), magic (have a much shorter optimal range since it''ll be hard to learn). course you''d have to have different gauges to show each skill "stamina" (for lack of a better word). maybe have different optimal range multiplier for different classes. but maybe you want a free range class system which is why you have polar stats. if that''s the case then you''ll want to be sure the skills are balanced. maybe have skills that you can only learn in the higher stam gauge. you''ll have reduced multipliers and need to study hard to get up into that range showing it''s hard to learn.

I''m just spouting out ideas based on your description of your skill system don''t mind me. think I''ll stop now I tend to do spout once in a while. have a few more ideas but I''ll never stop writing then

I don''t see this making a lot of sense, particularly the part where agility and dexterity are opposites, but it does sound to be an interesting way of representing experience gain.

From your numbers, it sounds like the character started off with 100 strength and 100 intelligence. After a fight, those numbers changed to 110 strength and 95 intelligence. The player gained more in strength than he lost in intelligence. This would mean that the player would probably wind up alternating between, say, fighting and spellcasting so that both strength and intelligence would eventually be higher than they started out. Assuming the player chose to do this, he might be forced to do something tedious later on: If he gets ambushed and has no choice but to kill many enemies using his sword alone, he''ll have to sit around and practice his spellcasting over and over until his intelligence comes back up. Or maybe he''ll be forced to use an equal amount of magic and melee in every encounter so that his stats will not be negatively affected, even if he''d rather decide what to used based on the individual battle.

Basically, if the player wanted to be a fighter and a spellcaster, he''d have to constantly work to keep his stats up. If he chose only one or the other, he wouldn''t have to constantly worry about his stats, but he''d either have a completely moronic warrior or a mage who couldn''t carry his own staff.

Is that the kind of gameplay you want?

By the way, what happens when someone runs out of a particular stat?

It sounds like it''s got potential, but if it actually is a non-zero-sum-game a hard limit or a logarithmic dropoff is probably going to be necessary. In this example, you''d get a lot of players who very quick got themselves to 106/110 STR/INT, then 117/105, then 110/115, and so on. It''s definitely an interesting see-saw effect, though. Sort of like the 4-way tradeoff you have to make in Shattered Galaxies between number of units, base unit capabilities, long-term extended unit capabilities and short-term capabilities. Their system, however, has a sharp dropoff as you climb in level AND hard limits on exactly what you can achieve in the long-term.

ld

I''m not quite sure how this fits. Fatigue is a good thing to model, but I don''t think the way it is setup makes sense. It would be better to have your physical attributes, and as a character performs strenuous activities, simply take away from the user''s affected stats.

I''m not sure physical fatigue would diminish one''s intelligence, though a lack of sleep would. Also, agility and dexterity are not diametrically opposed. Agility is overall balance, while dexterity is more hand/foot-eye coordination.

I think a game you might want to look at for inspiration on this is Hero Systems. It is a pen and paper game, but it''s an excellent roleplaying system. In it, you have a stat called endurance (END) that is based off of the characters constitution (CON) stat. As the character performs activities, his END gets depleted. After a certain point when END is depleted, then he loses physical stat points.

So the idea of a stamina pool is a good one, but I don''t think having opposing attributes make sense. Stamina is a very important attribute and one often neglected. Who cares how strong you are if you can''t last two rounds? As Napoleon said, "fatigue makes cowards of us all".

Well, I see what you''re getting at, but I''m not sure that I really agree with it. I find the whole "getting stronger makes you stupider" idea kinda repulsive actually. I get stupider by sitting around and watching TV, than I do by working out. Likewize, as far as combat goes, it can also be very dependant on attitude, awareness, and manipulation of your opponent, all probally INT score based.

However, if the system does what you want it to, use it.

i like the basic idea, but (IMHO) i think strength should "balance" with dexterity, not intelligence. when those bodybuilder types get all buff (extreme strength) they don''t necessarily get less intelligent, but they DO lose flexibility and quickness. as far as i knew dexterity and agility are almost the same thing... you need another stat to weight against intelligence, perhaps wisdom? i''ve noticed that many extremely smart people (high intelligence) tend to lack common sense or forethought (wisdom), mainly because they have too high a trust in their intelligence. i dunno, just my rambling opinion...

Great idea, I work out on a bench and my brains seap out my ears.

Stop trying to limit people and make them all ''equal''. It doesn''t work and only the specialists win in the end.

I can''t wait to see this game... a bunch of brutes that can''t think their way out of a paper bag (even though they could do probability and statistics a week ago) and a bunch of brain surgeons that couldn''t lift that same paper bag (even though they could lift 100lbs a week ago).

Please people, think. I''m not stupid because I''m strong and I''m not weak because I''m intelligent. I understand the desire to start everyone out equal, but it''s just not really possible. If you want to give people the chance to customize their characters then give them the option of changing their starting stats, so long as they balance everything out. Maybe do it where the first 20 ''flex'' points are 1-1 ratio, the next 10 are 1-2 ratio and all after that are 1-4 ratio. Then they can develop or train their stats up from there, but don''t force them into the UO ''max stats'' scenario. It was stupid in UO and it''s stupid in any other RPG.

quote: Original post by ThoughtBubble
Well, I see what you''re getting at, but I''m not sure that I really agree with it. I find the whole "getting stronger makes you stupider" idea kinda repulsive actually. I get stupider by sitting around and watching TV, than I do by working out. Likewize, as far as combat goes, it can also be very dependant on attitude, awareness, and manipulation of your opponent, all probally INT score based.

However, if the system does what you want it to, use it.

I actually find that I feel a little smarter after working out. I think it has to do with the oxygen getting to my brain better. I reccommend when you are stuck trying to do something in programming to go work out, take a shower, and then try it. For me it usually works.

-=Lohrno

Man, thats a sucky way to balance a game!
Please be more imaginitive!

Sorry