quote: there is no light AND dark, they are opposites. dark is the absense of light. you cannot have both.

So you''d be looking at it not as "light and dark", but rather, "The presence or lack of light". You could probably shorten that up to "Brightness". From there, having identified it as a singular entity, rather than two individual seperate concepts, it would be possible to ascertain a direct oposite to the entity "Brightness", which would, obviously, be... er... eh... "Cheese and blunts". Or anything else completely unreleated to brightness, of which there are an infinite number of possible candidates.

The majority of this thread seems to be essentially pointless abstract ideas without meaning placed underneath a facade of scientific analysis. I don''t mean that in a bad way, of course.

It sounds like the original poster is saying that, through studying the opposites of various game genres, it would be possible to derive entirely new genres. That is an interesting idea, but (unless I am reading it wrong), cannot be successful for the simple reason that not everything has an opposite.

With paint, green is the opposite of red.
Why?
Not because of some deep philosophical truth that causes green and red to be at opposite ends of the chi-void in the parallel planes of consciousness. It''s because green is made of yellow and blue, which are the two remaining primary colors. There is a logical rule for the existance of "opposites" within this color spectrum.

Attempting to apply the concept of the opposite to, say, "Tree", will not render any meaningful result. What is the opposite of "Tree"? Is it "Root"? "Ashes"? "Empty Air"? "Vacuum"?

For the same reasons that it is not possible to determine an opposite to "Tree", it is not possible to determine an opposite to "Real-Time Strategy".

However, this does not mean that this vein of thought is worthless - it could be a useful mental vice when attempting to envision a new game concept. Just like imagining the "sound of one hand clapping" can throw your thought processes for a loop, imagining the "opposite of a third-person shooter" might be a catalyst that would force you to rethink your previous creative limitations.

I do, however, agree with Krez that this is pretty much just an attempt to model something that doesn''t exist under the guise of creativity.

This is also to make you think. I am not asking for the opposite of tree lol that is an object and I am talking about ideology and concept that does have an opposite. If not true, then semi. Basically to make you think of other relations.
How can you see things all lied out when you don’t know how to lay it out? In a game have you every played a fighting platform RPG?
Creativity is lacking and everyone wants to copy and not evaluate. I have more original ideas that most. I see some games come out that I thought of that are cool but lack meant things because of their lack of evaluation. Their motivation is driven for the quick buck. And we have to know how something is and make it original and new and its reward will come.
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And just because I say it might be opposite doesn’t mean it truly the end all be all.

Also for light and dark you can''t see anything with true light and true dark. In being used as 100% is useless in that care. And their orthogonal (as one said) can be used to inspire other forms of creativity. And would be in the vicinity or what the original opposites are.

In a graph u have x and y but u also have + and - both are opposites and combined u get other variations. x+,x- y+,y-, if u think a bit more u will get another dimension if their is such a relation. z+,z-.

the opposite of heads is tales. so that’s their opposite? It doesn’t have to revolve around 1 main thing it can adapt to expand your mind. if a plant grows to big u but it in a bigger pot, if it gets bigger it goes into the garden.
so the opposite of heads and tails is????
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Don’t look at it as 1 object but of what it is in its properties.
it has 2 sides and if u doubles u have 4 and then maybe 6

If you flip a dime you get 2 sides if flip a dice you get 6.

Also don’t you guys agree on the layout I said of the game type?
How would you put it?

Their can not be light without dark, evil without good, mind without luck, etc... You know what I mean?

Their are game good vs. evil

`````evil`good
good`-+``++
evil`--``+-

so what type of games us which formula the most? There seems to be mostly true good vs. evil. and not good/evil vs. good/evil.

Has anyone seen Gundam wing? There no true bad guy in that story and everyone strives for good. even Hitler thought he was good and so did many and if he won we would be persuades that he is good and the others were bad. There is no one that says they are bad.
Stories try to be prefect by making perfect good and perfect bad. But the problem is that it’s imperfect since there are mostly good intentions that do bad actions in life.

Games are a mindless and many other forums of entertainment and nothing seems to be evaluated but sue what so far works.

take care

No Comments?

I gave that whole long n-dimensional geometry explanation in an attempt to put Warsong's idea into visualizable - if not practical - terms. To be honest, no matter how we look at it, we're just complicating matters. I admit opposites lead to logical layouts, but multiple aspects are unrelated. In other words, I don't think whole line-plane-hyperplace thing I describes has any uses whatsoever.

This just might have some uses, though:

                    |Cheap/Weak(-) v. Expensive/Strong(+) | Nature(-) v. Technology(+)        |_____________________________________|___________________________Terran  |             0                       |         +Zerg    |             -                       |         -Protoss |             +                       |         0  

As you can see, simply by working within this framework, there's still room for several more races:

  0, 0   Complete neutral; probably boring0, -   Medium-priced nature-based.  Probably an individual-based society, rather than a collective. +, +   An expensive technology-based race.  Think cyborgs.+, -   An expensive nature-based race.  'Secrets of the ancients' type stuff.-, 0   Cheap, neutral race.  Think cavemen.-, +   Cheap, technology-baed race.  Think nano-tech.      

Edited by - TerranFury on March 2, 2002 2:24:07 PM

Edited by - TerranFury on March 2, 2002 2:26:07 PM

Well at least some get it but it has to be perfected more to have a layout don’t some agree? So how is that going to happen?

Also what about other aspects of game design? Theirs an entire list of things to evaluate.

Also for objects finding opposites well it depends on what you are looking at. If you want a bag you say either paper or plastic lol. If you look at writing down info you can say paper/pencil or keyboard. If we just say paper in its opposite you don’t know where to reflect it from.

You have to state a main thing to discuss in a way.

It seems one application of this ''notation'' is balancing games.
However I think its rubbish I don''t even know why I replied. Anyone can think of an opposite for something, and most of the time there is not a definate opposite so opinion comes into it.
ie..
The opposite of black is white, but thats only if you are talking in terms of lightness, I could argue the opposite of black is red and talk in terms of saturation hue or luminescence. I could also say:
The opposite of warm is pain
The opposite of up is sidewards
The opposite of productive time is making pointless posts on gamedev
well, that was fun