Alright here's is something I cooked up when I read your challenge -

Use this link:-
http://www.infhost.com/members/thematicon/Thematicblah.jpg


In this(badly drawn) image, the purple triangle seems closer and higher than the sunken blue one. Why? and is it more than just the choice of colours and lines?


P.S, I was asking in my post for a demonstration picture/s to talk about. The rest of what I said was to explain that I feel words are inadequate to fully realise what your asking.


Edited by - Garott on January 14, 2002 10:54:07 PM

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Original post by Garott
In this(badly drawn) image, the purple triangle seems closer and higher than the sunken blue one. Why? and is it more than just the choice of colours and lines?

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I would think it has to do with the fact that the blue triangle''s outer boundries blend more with its background, thus making its definitive portion smaller than the pink triangle.

Now, I was hoping we could have some ideas on what compositional elements can be used to create themes, such as the ones I mentioned earlier, or any theme one might think of. For example, what imagery and compositional elements could one use to portray the theme of abandonment?

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Original post by bishop_pass
...what imagery and compositional elements could one use to portray the theme of abandonment ?

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You could use large spaces to emphasize loneliness. Black shadows and general darkness to represent the tricks your mind plays in such situations. Inanimate cold objects like rocks would help too. Maybe some solitary creatures like spiders(or spider webs), or cold blooded creatures like reptiles, that make you imagine hostile environments where few could survive...

Like I said, I''m not too good at this...

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Original post by Garott
Like I said, I''m not too good at this...

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Hey, neither am I. There''s nothing wrong with your ideas. I am looking at this from a photography perspective myself, using previsualization to seek and isolate those elements that fulfill a theme, and then building a suite of images which portray that theme.

Abandonment is not necessarily a theme that I am pursuing, but it is an example of a theme that one might pursue. I visualize old playgrounds, derelict gas stations, or rusty derelict items sitting amongst empty and desolate surroundings. Maybe sidelighting from late afternoon sunlight. I see an empty chair or swing or bench, perhaps one that hasn''t been used in years...

There''s a picture of an ancient bristlecone pine (I didn''t take it) titled "Splendid Isolation". Now there''s a theme I want to pursue.

Even within the context of 3d games, this type of thinking has application. Level design can benefit. The designer is basically a set designer. Elements available to the 3d level designer are props, lighting, and geometry. As a player enters a room, the player will see the room from a particular vantage point. This gives the level designer the opportunity to ''visualize and create'' a 2d image from this viewpoint to evoke feelings in the player. Abandonment might be the theme and representative of the feelings the level designer wishes to evoke in the player.



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After posting my thoughts on the loneliness/abandonment theme, I attempted to put it in ink(actually pixels but ink sounds better).

Here''s what I drew:-
http://www.infhost.com/members/thematicon/Thematictrois.jpg


It''s quite odd what I came up with... It might not fulfill the theme but it''s definately wierd...

bishop_pass wrote:

Even within the context of 3d games, this type of thinking has application. Level design can benefit. The designer is basically a set designer. Elements available to the 3d level designer are props, lighting, and geometry. As a player enters a room, the player will see the room from a particular vantage point. This gives the level designer the opportunity to ''visualize and create'' a 2d image from this viewpoint to evoke feelings in the player. Abandonment might be the theme and representative of the feelings the level designer wishes to evoke in the player.



I''ve been thinking about this lately, and I agree on it''s importance. Games like Thief are fine examples of evocative atmosphere, same goes for system shock and half-life. All the quality games have these elements...

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Original post by Garott
After posting my thoughts on the loneliness/abandonment theme, I attempted to put it in ink(actually pixels but ink sounds better).

Here''s what I drew:-
http://www.infhost.com/members/thematicon/Thematictrois.jpg

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Well, it looks more like the theme of despair.

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Original post by Garott
I''ve been thinking about this lately, and I agree on it''s importance. Games like Thief are fine examples of evocative atmosphere, same goes for system shock and half-life. All the quality games have these elements...

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Yes. And as an exercise, whether for games or some other venue, themes can help.

Ok, how about this one? Does anyone care to put a theme to this picture which I shot a few years ago with my 4x5 view camera? What feelings does it evoke, if any?



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Hey Nice to see more people posting on that thread.

Kylotan : the problem is that it''s very hard for most people to stop enjoying what they are doing and try *understanding* what they are doing in order to later on have more fun doing it (does THAT make any sense ?). I was the same until I was "forced" to attend fine art lectures, which were basically stuff about the theory of art, the history of art, and so on. Much enlightning !

Bishop_pass :
First, I want to criticise the composition of the picture, as it will maybe explain some of the stuff I was referring too in my first post.
The colors are perfectly chosen ! The red stones in the foreground, then a green patch and in the far background the blueish tones of the mountains and the sky.
This is the perfect illustration of "warm foreground, cold background", it enhances the feeling of depth in the picture. Especially with the fact that each layer had a very marked dominant hue.
The balance of colours is also quite good, with the warm colour being on one half of the picture and the cold on the other.

Composition. A strong diagonal line cuts the picture in two, and the added diagonal between the green and blue zones creates a focus on the meeting point of those lines.
If it was design rather than photography, you''d have a logo at this spot where your eye keep being drawn at.
An interesting thing I notice as well is the amount of detail in the rocks opposed to the plainess (does that exist?) of the grass and mountains.
The presence of the man creates a welcome detail on the right side, balancing the picture.
Also, I would bet his position is very near one of the golden point of the picture (look up on gold number and picture composition if you dont know what that is, or maybe just ask me).

As for the theme ...
the stair is a very nice little detail. The man is at the beginning of those stairs.
The stairs go towards the main focus point of the picture.
I feel something about the contemplation of the future.
The road ahead or something like that.
I also like the contrast between the ordered nature of the stairs, in the midst of a very chaotic rocky environment...
or maybe I just see too much ?

But anyway, to backup bishop_pass initiative, I have to say sometimes it''s much more interesting to talk about a picture and try to understand it, rather than simply say "Uhuh! it''s a nice picture"... don''t you think ?

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Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !

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Original post by ahw
Hey Nice to see more people posting on that thread.

Kylotan : the problem is that it''s very hard for most people to stop enjoying what they are doing and try *understanding* what they are doing in order to later on have more fun doing it (does THAT make any sense ?). !

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And most importantly, doesn''t an understanding of the process lead to more consistent and powerful imagery? Admittedly, it is a vague and difficult process to convey, but talent does not entirely arise naturally, but rather through trial and error, practice, and diligent application of techniques which are often overlooked by beginners. I constantly strive to better my photographic compositions, and I feel I am always improving and yet have room to grow through continued discussion and study on the subject.

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Original post by ahw
Bishop_pass :
First, I want to criticise the composition of the picture, as it will maybe explain some of the stuff I was referring too in my first post.

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Thanks for the criticism! I exposed the film on a 4 inch x 5 inch sheet of film. I lucked out on that day with the light, getting the wonderful pastel tonality you see in the image. I spent about 30 minutes setting up the camera, composing the image, and thinking about the positioning of the ridges. My friend (the one in the picture) remained patiently in that spot while I composed and focused. This was no snapshot, but carefully planned and composed.

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Original post by ahw
I feel something about the contemplation of the future.
The road ahead or something like that.
I also like the contrast between the ordered nature of the stairs, in the midst of a very chaotic rocky environment...
or maybe I just see too much ?

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Contemplation is definitely one of the feelings I get from the image, and one of the feelings I was trying to convey with it. I told my friend to gaze off at Middle Palisade, one of the fourteen thousand foot peaks just above his head and to the left. Because the film is so large, a high quality scan of the image can result in a 500 megapixel image, providing incredible detail in the grass of the greenish hill, among other things. An enlargement of this image is pretty breathtaking, and I like to think of it as one of my best images to date.

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That''s a wonderful photo, the details are crisp, and the sense of distance is conveyed well.

Here''s my bit of (constructive :D)criticism, bear in mind my near zero photography experience .

There is too much emphasis on the rocky relief thing(bottom left triangular section), which stands out and distracts you from looking far into the distance. The horizon line could be lower, allowing more cloud and sky to show greater distance. I''ve found that certain cloud/skies help convey emotions well, but capturing them is another thing entirely, (that''s why I draw ).

How are those ideas? Would they help in furthering the theme of contemplation?

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Original post by Garott
That's a wonderful photo, the details are crisp, and the sense of distance is conveyed well.

Here's my bit of (constructive :D)criticism, bear in mind my near zero photography experience .

There is too much emphasis on the rocky relief thing(bottom left triangular section), which stands out and distracts you from looking far into the distance. The horizon line could be lower, allowing more cloud and sky to show greater distance. I've found that certain cloud/skies help convey emotions well, but capturing them is another thing entirely, (that's why I draw ).

How are those ideas? Would they help in furthering the theme of contemplation?

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Well, there are numerous ways to compose an image. Some are just as good as others, and some go towards conveying different themes. Had I lowered the horizon, I would have had to have my friend walk up the stairs a little more to fit in the picture, and that would have made him more horizontally center in the picture and his head would have been closer to the top of the green hill. Those are two things I did not want. Also, while cloudy skies are excellent subject matter, every picture should not be filled with a large portion of sky. If we did this, we would end up with most pictures having large protions of sky, and that would become mundane. I personally feel (and that is my feeling only) that the image successfully conveys expansive distances precisely because the land stretches off from the bottom of the frame to nearly the top. If the sky occupied a significant portion of the frame, this effect would have been lessened.

Another element in the picture which creates interest is the yellow flowered shrub just to the right of my friend's foot. I strategically placed my friend there so the bush would be visible and not exactly on the edge of the frame.

I think the image works better when presented in a larger size. Look at this version of it. It is just over 200k. It may stretch beyond your monitor, so maximize the browser window and scroll horizontally and verticaly if necessary. The feeling of distance can really be felt. To mimimize file size, I saved it as a low quality JPEG. The detail and color is much better in the original and capable of enlargement up to 25,000 pixels across.



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Edited by - bishop_pass on January 17, 2002 1:40:38 PM