http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20010831/survey_02.htm
[Gaiiden]
I'm lazy. Sue me
[/Gaiiden]

OH NO ! there are no “Game Designers” ?
Damn that’s why all the MMORPG’s are the same..
Wait !!
But that means if MR J.R.R Tolkein were to come back to life there would be no job for Him in the games industry, after all Pah “we don’t need Tolkein for ideas we got programmers for that” LoL.

If you can program or you can draw then do just that and leave the design to the “Game Designer”

I wish it was that simple.. but I find myself doing the engine programming, level editor programming, 3d models, a significant part of the game design, concept art, and some of the levels

Not alot of companies have the money to have one person for each job.

quote: Original post by Diodor
Q&A is game design (game balancing, etc.).
Level design, puzzle design, world creation, and other game content creation is game design.
Scripting the AI of different monsters is game design.
Creating the user interface is game design.

Come on, there _must_ be a game designer somewhere.

Congrats, Diodor. I think you just proved my point without meaning to The reason the term "game designer" is phantom is because most people think of a game designer as the person in charge of all those game aspects you listed above. This is not true, as what you describe comes from a team of people. The project leader is the closest person to a game designer, as he oversees things to make sure the game stays on track to its original concept, but that's about it.

quote: Original post by HenryApe
Btw, Gaiiden, what are you writing about in Game Design Methods book?

For an inside look at what my articles are about, you can check out my home page. This page, specifically. They are the last three articles listed.

quote: Original post by Argus
That is kind of depressing actually.

I think you'd even more depressed if you hadn't realized this and pulled dowm all the qualifications for a job that doesn't exist, especially for industry newcomers.

quote: Original post by BaShildy
There's been so many misuses of the word "game designer" that I changed my sig last night. Glad one our great site admin's took the time to point this out in a forum that's usually lack of intelligent discussion (ranking up there with Game Designers in the help wanted section). Thanks Gaiiden

You're very welcome I just started to get the feeling that a lot of people in here are spending all their time doing nothing but think up game ideas. No one in the industry does nothing but think up game ideas. That's another phantom job. I decided a nice kick in the pants was in order to get them to start coding or drawing or mixing or something that would get them a real job

Basically if you wanna be a game designer, you start at the bottom and work you way up to lead artist or programmer or sounde designer - those are the real design positions for the various fields, with project manager being the all-encompassing job that dips into each of those areas.

quote: Original post by MSW
Yep, "game designers" don't really exist at the large commercial game development houses...but don't let that stop you.

Certainly not. It's not doomsday people, it just means you have to start focusing on something other than just thinking up game ideas. Even if you make games yourself where you think it up and others program it, then that's method #1 of becoming a designer, and you'll have to form your own studio if that's the only skill you have. Best, however, to work on your programming or art or music or whatever you're best at - even writing is becoming something you can contract for nowadays.

And Diodor, what were you pointing out with that poll? That they used the term "designer"? Even so, you can see that by trying to become one with no experience isn't worth it. You could get an entry-level programming job that pays more than that.

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Drew Sikora
A.K.A. Gaiiden

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Blade Edge Software
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3-time Contributing author, Game Design Methods , Charles River Media (coming GDC 2002)
Online column - Design Corner at Pixelate

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>> If you can program or you can draw then do just that and leave the design to the “Game Designer” >>

I believe the point of the article that Gaiiden quoted was that the people who become designers without starting up their own companies are people who have been working at other positions in the industry for several years, such as programmers, artists, writers (Tolkien), producers, QA etc. I don't think anyone meant to say that there aren't game designers, just that you generally can't get a job as one without having worked on a number of games.

>> But that means if MR J.R.R Tolkein were to come back to life there would be no job for Him in the games industry, after all Pah “we don’t need Tolkein for ideas we got programmers for that” LoL. >>

Tolkien was a writer and knew nothing about designing interactive applications, what's to say that he would be better at designing games than an experienced game programmer with a few successful titles under his belt? Sure, Tolkien might be better at writing the back-story, but that's hardly the same as doing game design (which is also why there is a separate game writing forum).

Henry

Edit: Correction

Edited by - HenryApe on January 6, 2002 6:17:35 PM

It has already been said that everyone does have ideas. I think it's a seperate skill to think of ways to implement them and put them into a code format. That is probably why people already involved in the game development such as programmers are the ones that are used for ideas because they have a better idea of how to make an idea work from the technical standpoint

Edited by - Nazrix on January 6, 2002 6:39:16 PM

quote: Original post by Nazrix
It has already been said that everyone does have ideas. I think it's a seperate skill to think of ways to implement them and put them into a code format. That is probably why people already involved in the game development such as programmers are the ones that are used for ideas because they have a better idea of how to make an idea work from the technical standpoint

Edited by - Nazrix on January 6, 2002 6:39:16 PM

(warning: the below statement may be offensive to some; I have no intention of starting any flame wars, so read at your own risk)

Actually, I think the advantage programmers have over anyone else in terms of design, is that they know what CAN be done and what CAN'T be done. This is especially true for experienced programmers. However, not all programmers have the creative abilities required to design games. It's the multi-talented people who are good at programming AND happen to be creative who become designers. Just wanted to emphasize that because people seem to have the notion that game programmers are "creative programmers." That's pure BS because programming is the same regardless of whether you're making a game or a word processor. You're using the same language and the same compiler, the only difference is the end result. What I'm trying to say is, just because you're a good programmer doesn't mean you can design games.



Edited by - Supernova on January 6, 2002 7:22:42 PM

since I call myself a game designer I pretty much have to respond...

The general thoughts are pretty much on target, there´s no such thing as the game designer who´s just the "ideas guy". However it seems to me that more and more companies are having people do design work full time because in the long run it does save money.
I have seen projects get cancelled, delayed, changed or reworked a hundred times because there was no or an insufficient GD. Writing up a solid GD is hard work, even for small time games. But once you have that, you are on firm ground and the danger of going over budget is greatly reduced. Also, it is easier to find a publisher if you have lots and lots of material to show them, even if it´s just to show them that you know what you are doing.

I would have never indicated "Game Designer" as the job I wanted to have some day, simply because it did not seem realistic and because I have always believed that game desing alone is not enough. And it isn´t.
In order to write a good design you need to know stuff from many different fields. You should have at least basic coding skills, it helps get a grip on what´s possible and what´s not. You should have some art skills, both paper and computer, as it helps you give shape to your ideas. You must know how to write, not great novels but to be able to clearly formulate your ideas, so everyone reading the GD will understand what you mean. Some music skills also help, a wide knowledge of styles and techniques helps give the right ideas to the sound people. Then you should be familiar with lots of games in all genres (usually the least problem ) and generally know your way around the media, especially holywood cinema has proven to be a big help.

Apart from the GD writer there´s QA (which most design people have a lot of experience with), level and character design, storywriting and lots of other stuff.

And the game designer is not the guy "who thinks it all up", he is the one who writes it all up. I believe that a good designer must see beyond his own taste to accommodate that of the audience, of course everyone has projects he or she would rather do, but if you are professional about your work, you should be able to design anything. You should be able to have an argument for every deceision you made, you should have talked to everyone even remotely involved with the project, the designer is the one who listens to the ideas and thoughts of every team member and then tries to make that into a coherent whole.

And I would say about 0,1% of your time is spent doing "your" baby project.

Edited by - Hase on January 7, 2002 6:06:51 PM

quote: Original post by Supernova

(warning: the below statement may be offensive to some; I have no intention of starting any flame wars, so read at your own risk)

Actually, I think the advantage programmers have over anyone else in terms of design, is that they know what CAN be done and what CAN''T be done. This is especially true for experienced programmers. However, not all programmers have the creative abilities required to design games. It''s the multi-talented people who are good at programming AND happen to be creative who become designers. Just wanted to emphasize that because people seem to have the notion that game programmers are "creative programmers." That''s pure BS because programming is the same regardless of whether you''re making a game or a word processor. You''re using the same language and the same compiler, the only difference is the end result. What I''m trying to say is, just because you''re a good programmer doesn''t mean you can design games.

Edited by - Supernova on January 6, 2002 7:22:42 PM

yeah good point...Furthermore, maybe you don''t necessarily have to be a fantastic programmer and be able to have perfectly optomized code to be able to know what''s possible but you have to understand basic programming logic (if/then, etc)

I am a game designer. I''m just not getting paid for it =)

Unfortunately games are so complicated nowadays that it''s practically impossible to create a good game by oneself. Yeah Andrew Braybrook could probably still do it, but very few others. Kind of a shame really.