Vilem Otte said:

The problem might be IP ownership for example. Let's suppose we both work on project which you own, but I do add my IP to it (3D models, sounds, but even code, technically whatever). But we don't have a contract - who owns whatever I create and add the project then? Because if it is the creator, and not “the project” (either company or person owning the project), it can create massive problems in future.

I mean sure, all sorts of stuff can happen. However, I've heard many people claim that something like less than 5% of revshare projects and maybe even lower, get anywhere near to the point that money is being divvied up. I can easily believe that, looking at INAT posts on reddit. Seems like getting people to work on a project and stick through until the end is 95% of the battle. If you get to the point where you are worried about IP, you are probably way ahead of the curve. So stuff that gets in the way of finishing the project can be considered bad.

If the OP doesn't want to “hire” this guy, that's fine. I'm not saying he should or shouldn't. But I can see the other side of the coin. At less than a 5% chance of getting anything significant for your work, it can feel insulting to have to sign something. I'd bet the guy is looking at this more like volunteer work.

Gnollrunner said:
At less than a 5% chance of getting anything significant for your work, it can feel insulting to have to sign something. I'd bet the guy is looking at this more like volunteer work.

Source?

Where did you find this statistic?

Also, have you ever looked at the success rate of mods? They are most all volunteer as well.

I've volunteered before many places, and the good ones may not have a “contract” per say, but they do have norms, expectations and some form of agreements.

As recruiting a Dpt lead, I need to be able to trust and rely on you completely, to do what you need to, and to follow my directions.

“Trust but verify.”

I had one guy 6 years ago be a terrible PR manager. He did the exact opposite of what he was meant to do, he released a bunch of internal documentation online. We didn't have a contract back in 2015, and even though all the stuff he released was already public. I got a Google alert that Morning, letting me know, and I confronted him. He was an incredibly insecure individual, and basically broke down when I talked to him, asking him why he did what he did.

Years later I found him on Linkedin, and connected with him, and he went to the paranoid place, thinking I hunted him down to exact revenge.

I, and by extension the company are taking the bulk of responsibility.

Oh ya,

And a few years ago someone wanted to join, I gave him the contract, and he said he didn't like the “non solicitation" and

"arbitration " clauses, which are standard in any contract. He was a new grad, so maybe he didn't know it was standard?
Also, freaking out over a “non solicitation” clause does not bode well.

GeneralJist said:

Source?

I don't have a source. It's just something I remember from a couple of internet articles, but I can't find them now. Also, I notice there are a lot small “studios” out there, but most are doing revshare projects. If they were successful in the past, why can't they fund a project normally? I don't want to get into a big discussion about it. If you think I'm wrong that's fine, I very well may be. You have to go with your own judgement. That's just my general feeling. But good luck.

GeneralJist said:
And a few years ago someone wanted to join, I gave him the contract, and he said he didn't like the “non solicitation "arbitration " clauses, which are standard in any contract. He was a new grad, so maybe he didn't know it was standard?

This being said, legal rules of a country where one lives apply. Now I'm absolutely sure laws in my country are completely different than yours - so I will go a bit into off, but still related topic - there are specific legal limitations - and in my country breaking a law in a contract makes contract invalid already before it was signed. Few examples from my country:

• Non-solicitation (among many other things) has to be limited to the time-frame of employment. It is illegal to extend it even a single day more. It also can be used only on the same area of business. (still, I can't start spamming company clients with ads that I offer meat products while working for IT company … there is a different law in place to prevent you from that)
• Arbitration can't exceed the total amount of payments in contract between business entities (I've seen far too many contracts stating total contract value (in equivalent of local currency) of 1k and arbitration fine of “up to” 1M - one was even requiring my company to not work in IT area at all apart from that single contract, which is also completely illegal)
• Arbitration with employee can't exceed legal maximum amount of fine (there is a limit like at most ‘2-month average income in the country at given time or 2-month employee’s income from contract - whatever is lower'
• Arbitration can be only required for few named legal reasons, anything else has to be taken to court.
• Arbitration has also to be ‘on equal grounds’ - i.e. it must apply to both sides. One sided contracts are illegal. (This is often a bit of grey zone and can end up in legal process, one has to be very careful of which cases are precedent here for specific situations - mostly between companies as employee rights are already stronger due to laws defending and favoring employees)

And you could go on. I named few of these for obvious reasons - when you're working on ‘unpaid work’* like mods (or future revenue) things like arbitration in contract makes the contract illegal as whole. Making contracts for such projects that are legally sound here could be a nightmare. The law doesn't consider such projects at all.

* Unpaid work in legal system in my country is illegal by definition (and it can even be classified as crime under some circumstances … there were already numerous cases of unpaid internships, where interns sued such company and won). So contracts for mods, open source projects, etc. Can't legally force other party to work at all (as that would require at least minimum wage compensation from the other side). ‘Future revenue’ is not a legal term here.

GeneralJist said:

As recruiting a Dpt lead, I need to be able to trust and rely on you completely, to do what you need to, and to follow my directions.

Sounds like you're not looking for a partner, but an unpaid employee. Good luck with that.

If you want a team member to sign a standard employment contract, pay a standard employment salary.

GeneralJist said:
He says, signing any kind of contract for unpaid / rev share doesn't make sense to him.

And he is right. You should flash green bellies if you demand any sort of contract from someone.

GeneralJist said:
Source? Where did you find this statistic?

I have read the same statistics around 2007. But that was when people were competent enough to learn how to display a polygon instead of using joke wasd engines, now i would say less than 0.1% is the actual ratio.