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I Challenge You Too!

Started by December 14, 2001 04:55 PM
43 comments, last by bishop_pass 22 years, 11 months ago
quote: Original post by TechnoHydra
No offense bishop_pass but the 3 hours I spent at the theater last night watching Fellowship of the Ring was better then any 20 hour trip you could have offered to us. Kudos to the director of Lord Of The Rings, may his next two be just as enthralling.


Possibly so, who knows? One thing is certain, the characters in the Lord of the Rings ventured forth into the unknown, sometiemes sublime and sometimes frightening and faced challenges and adversity which tested their character and provided memories which would last them a lifetime. You, as a movie goer, observed a 3 hour compression of this on a 2 dimensional screen.

On the other hand, my 20 hour excursions will have you venturing forth into the unknown, the sometimes sublime and sometimes frightening and will have you face adversity and test your character and provide you with memories which will last you a lifetime.


_______________________________
"To understand the horse you'll find that you're going to be working on yourself. The horse will give you the answers and he will question you to see if you are sure or not."
- Ray Hunt, in Think Harmony With Horses
ALU - SHRDLU - WORDNET - CYC - SWALE - AM - CD - J.M. - K.S. | CAA - BCHA - AQHA - APHA - R.H. - T.D. | 395 - SPS - GORDIE - SCMA - R.M. - G.R. - V.C. - C.F.
quote: Original post by bishop_pass
What is it with the words? Where am I speaking with big impressive words? I may be speaking a little metaphorically, and a little over the top, but I sure as hell am not trying to impress anyone with words here.

i never said big words... and i never said they were impressive either... i said... oh, read my previous post properly then come back to this!
quote: I actually get a little bit of a kick out of the ones here who don't get it. Those are the ones in need of it (a little adventure).

a little smug for someone who can't even explain himself in plain english in the "writing" forum... guess what? if i were the type to confuse illiteracy and metaphore [*ahem*] i could start rambling "a little over the top" and then smile smugly at everyone who wouldn't pretend that i was making sense. but i'm not like that (i prefer making sense at the expense of not sounding psuedointellectual).
quote: One of the reasons I avoid actually describing the specifics of my proposed excursions is because words do not qualify to relate the experience to those who have not experienced something similar. It's not about a hike in the woods, or a trip to a national park overlook, or an excursion to climb some piece of crap crag just outside the city.

try me (yes, i'm calling you out on this one).
quote: As for the crack pipe, I need no such artificial drugs to get a high.

hey, crack is natural! it is a form of rock! (sorry couldn't resist)...
quote: As for my license to pontificate about these things, if you would like to compare notes and experience regarding adventure, I'll be happy too.

Main Entry: 2pon·tif·i·cate
1 a : to officiate as a pontiff b : to celebrate pontifical mass
2 : to speak or express opinions in a pompous or dogmatic way


well, either you are claiming to be an episcopal bishop, or you are admitting to #2 above. as we all know, dogmatic means "characterized by or given to the use of dogmatism":

Main Entry: dog·ma·tism
1 : positiveness in assertion of opinion especially when unwarranted or arrogant
2 : a viewpoint or system of ideas based on insufficiently examined premises


sorry, but maybe you should pick a new "impressive" word to put on your license, unless you really mean that everything you say is based on insufficiently examined premises (and thus worthless), and that you express it in a pompous way.
quote: As it turns out, my initial post was a genuine offer to take anyone here along on one of my excursions. Such offers are the result of truly wishing to share awesome experiences with others. I would even suffer krez's company, as he would most benefit from one of my excursions.

don't you understand? you have nothing to offer, and i am one of the few people who are willing to tell you that! the rest are just playing your game. how could i possibly benefit from being a captive audience to your "metaphorical pontification", when that is one of my least favorite things to do? and please don't tell me it'll build character...
quote: Why even the anonymous poster (the poor soul) accusing me of smoking crack could probably learn a thing or three.

unless he already knows how to grow his own dope.

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

Edited by - krez on December 21, 2001 4:42:11 PM
--- krez ([email="krez_AT_optonline_DOT_net"]krez_AT_optonline_DOT_net[/email])
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Hmm, I think everything we see in the world outside the movies is in 2D. The 3rd (depth) is just a perception which is carried over to "2D" movies. But I admit that excursions out into the real world use more senses (5 to be precise, 6 if you believe in them) then "watching" movie (2, sight and sound).
quote: Original post by krez
i never said big words... and i never said they were impressive either... i said... oh, read my previous post properly then come back to this!


Hmmm, you explicitly said I reminded you of someone who liked to impress with his use of language. Now you are saying something else entirely, yet being vague about it.

quote: Original post by krez
a little smug for someone who can't even explain himself in plain english in the "writing" forum... guess what? if i were the type to confuse illiteracy and metaphore [*ahem*] i could start rambling "a little over the top" and then smile smugly at everyone who wouldn't pretend that i was making sense. but i'm not like that (i prefer making sense at the expense of not sounding psuedointellectual).


Wow. I'm not trying to sound intellectual. Forgive me if you think I am.

quote: Original post by krez
try me (yes, i'm calling you out on this one).


Try what? I assume you are actually calling me on the notion that I don't actually have within my capacity the ability to share with others the way to powerful destinations which transcend time, places which humble and sometimes humiliate, places which present fantastical vistas which awe the senses, excursions which test one's resolve and in the end build powerful memories?

Unfortunately krez, you speak as if you do not believe it is possible to gain such an experience on this Earth in this life within the realm of practical reason. This harks back to another thread I created where I psoposed the question of whether certain places have an intrinsic romanticism over an extrinsic romanticism.

Why don't you try a day trip to the moraine in front of Keeler Needle amidst a thunderstorm as you contemplate the 14,000 crest of the Sierra rearing up in front of you like some high mountain palisade blocking entrance to Tolkien's Mordor? How about venturing over the gabled crest of Kearsarge Pass to look down upon the verdant green meadows and scintillating lakes in the paradise like basin below? What about journeying over Lamarck Col into the Evolution Basin or venturing into the Evolution Basin via the Keyhole? How about a trip down Buckskin Gulch? How about walking along a ridge at 14,000 feet looking a thousand feet down a sheer wall at the highest lake in the U.S. on one side and two thousand feet down a sheer wall on the other side to another set of lakes?

The above are places I have ventured to many times or (in a few cases) failed to reach due to circumstances. They always challenge the body, provide a puzzle to the mind in the form of route finding, electrify the senses, awe the imagination, and always exceed one's expectations. They are the preferred venue of many world class adventurers, beckoning to such individuals over and over again even after they have ventured to such remote place like the Himalayas or the poles of the Earth.

To quote Gordon Wiltsie: These are the mountains that kindled a love that has lured me to some of the wildest ranges on Earth. But nearly everytime I have struggled halfway around the globe to the Himalaya, the Alps, the Andes or Antarctica, I've found myself wondering why I hadn't just stayed home.

Here in the spacious wilderness stretching between Mt, Whitney and the Sawtooth Range, lie most of my fondest climbing memories, as well as my closest brushes with elements far more powerful than I. This landscape has humbled me and it has almost killed me. But mostly, it has inspired me to come alive .

Who could not become enraptured after wrapping fingers over the Sierra Crest? Nowhere else will I ever find more joy than watching vast panoramas unfold below my feet on the Swiss Arete, Cathedral Peak or Charlotte Dome. And to every horizon, high above sparkling lakes and iridescent meadows, are endless other granite highways, with cracks and chickenheads leading straight into a sky so clear and blue that the sun is just a pinpoint.

These are mountains we can meet with just a rucksack and a ropemate, but they're also not to be taken lightly, looming with every element of personal challenge we might seek from the sport. I've learned many a frightening lesson from the bergschrund on Palisade Glacier, from runouts on long, blank faces, and from rocks that have teetered and tumbled when I expected them the least. And benevolent as Sierra weather might usually be, I've felt my hair stand on end from lightning, and staggered miles through surprise summer snow. But even the worst, endless bivouacs, when cold and a distant dawn gave rise to my deepest fears, I've never questioned why I climb there.


So krez, as Wiltsie has experienced, so have I gazed upon some of the most soul-stirring panoramas that I have ever seen. I have felt the wrath of a summer thunderstorm which sounded like Armageddon as I ascended to University Col in rain and sleet. I have wrapped my fingers over the crest of a peak to discover grand views opening up and down with dizzying force. I have walked a ridge high above a granite basin of desolation. I have walked in a day from the hot sandy desert floor to the snow drifts of a high mountain pass bathed in a chilling wind. I have been sick, humiliated, scared, and forced to walk out in the dark mustering all the strength I could.

It is here that I walk in the footsteps of the intrepid and visionary, including explorer Clarence King, naturalist and mountaineer John Muir, writer Mary Austin, photographer Ansel Adams, mountaineer Norman Clyde, mountaineers John and Ruth Mendenhall, big wall climber Waren Harding, adventurer and climber Royal Robbins, photographer and adventurer Galen Rowell, and the list goes on and on.

The high altitude of the High Sierra brings with it a sky incredibly deep blue and clear. At night, one revels in the blaze of lights stretching across the heavens. It is there that I have witnessed the most meteors streaking across the sky with amazing regularity. It is there that I have seen satellites move across the sky more than any other place. It is there that I found the moonlight to be enough to hike by at midnight because the thin atmosphere doesn't dim the moon's illumination.

Ansel Adams wrote: All the early morning the sky was thronged with cloud and a sharp wind beat upon the crags. Before noon an eager arm of cloud clutched at the sun, and a sigh of shadow came over the mountains. Rippling patterns of wind flashed on turquoise waters-ice fields became cold gray as the moon before dawn. It was good to be buffeted by cool and fragrant air. And one must ever bow before the deep benediction of thunder. We sat for long under a rocky shelter while the storm moved over the pass and roared down canyon to westward. High summits were veiled in massive clouds that swirled and blended above us.


Edited by - bishop_pass on December 21, 2001 9:22:57 PM
_______________________________
"To understand the horse you'll find that you're going to be working on yourself. The horse will give you the answers and he will question you to see if you are sure or not."
- Ray Hunt, in Think Harmony With Horses
ALU - SHRDLU - WORDNET - CYC - SWALE - AM - CD - J.M. - K.S. | CAA - BCHA - AQHA - APHA - R.H. - T.D. | 395 - SPS - GORDIE - SCMA - R.M. - G.R. - V.C. - C.F.
I have sometimes been asked what charm there can be in the higher levels of the Sierra, when the forests are gone and nothing remains that is not dead and forbidding, the bare crags and the snow-fields. To such a question the surest answer would be an evening spent in such a camp as we had that night. Such a scene!-wild, desolate, cold, forbidding, fascinating! White granite for miles, black shadows in the canyons and clefts, glistening snow, and tiny lakes sparkling in the moonlight: jagged, fantastic peaks and pinnacles with alpine intensity of light and shadow, masses of ice and snow clinging to the gentler slopes. And withal the intense quiet and lonliness of the place, a seeming new world on a new planet, where man and and his works are nothing. The thrill of it all comes even now, though months have passed, and will remain through the years to come.

--A quote from Lincoln Hutchinson, 1903, as quoted in The High Sierra, Wilderness of Light.
_______________________________
"To understand the horse you'll find that you're going to be working on yourself. The horse will give you the answers and he will question you to see if you are sure or not."
- Ray Hunt, in Think Harmony With Horses
ALU - SHRDLU - WORDNET - CYC - SWALE - AM - CD - J.M. - K.S. | CAA - BCHA - AQHA - APHA - R.H. - T.D. | 395 - SPS - GORDIE - SCMA - R.M. - G.R. - V.C. - C.F.
quote: Original post by bishop_pass
Hmmm, you explicitly said I reminded you of someone who liked to impress with his use of language. Now you are saying something else entirely, yet being vague about it.

i guess you didn't read the previous post before you started rambling again, as i suggested. i simply did not (and still do not) want to re-explain myself when this wonderful website store each and every word we type for future reference. so, once again, please read my previous post (well, two back now) and then and only then comment on what i say. i am not vague; you just cannot (or refuse to) understand plain english that i wrote to you half a page up.
quote: Wow. I'm not trying to sound intellectual. Forgive me if you think I am.

of course you aren't... perhaps you naturally spew dogmatic inanity!
quote: me: try me (yes, i'm calling you out on this one).
you: Try what?

well, not in so many words... i am speaking of this (you know, the quote that i put directly in front of the comment in question? that wasn't that hard was it?)
quote: from a previous post:
One of the reasons I avoid actually describing the specifics of my proposed excursions is because words do not qualify to relate the experience to those who have not experienced something similar. It's not about a hike in the woods, or a trip to a national park overlook, or an excursion to climb some piece of crap crag just outside the city.

so yes, after two tries you got it; i want to know what wonderful places you must know, that are too wonderful to be explained to us mortals. of course, the next several paragraphs of your last rambling (which i will not quote) told about some of these places; wow, so you like to hike, huh? cool.
quote: Unfortunately krez, you speak as if you do not believe it is possible to gain such an experience on this Earth in this life within the realm of practical reason.

you misunderstand me. i simply do not believe that going to such a place with you as a guide would be good in any way. i'd prefer to go by myself (or with someone who could hold a decent conversation). i do not appreciate your attempt to underestimate my ability to perceive and appreciate things. and i am not the one with a problem with "the realm of practical reason."
quote: [PLUG] This harks back to another thread I created where I psoposed the question of whether certain places have an intrinsic romanticism over an extrinsic romanticism.[/PLUG]

you should put a link too, so these people here can read your other... um... works .
quote: ...

ok, ok, i'll say it again, i'm glad you like hiking. i'm glad you like doing it where other people have done it, and written about their wonderful experience. i'm glad you enjoy good scenery. good for you. rock on.
stop trying to say that doing this with you there would add to the experience; you are not gandalf... you are some guy who talks too much (and much too vaguely).

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

Edited by - krez on December 22, 2001 3:35:36 PM
--- krez ([email="krez_AT_optonline_DOT_net"]krez_AT_optonline_DOT_net[/email])
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krez,

First you go on about how I don't read the posts stored on this website, and then you exhibit the stupidity of demonstrating that you have not in fact been digesting what I myself have been saying.

I did not say it was me that made my excursions wonderful. I explicitly made that clear earlier. I also said my excursions were not about hiking in the woods or other similar experiences. And you further demonstrate your lack of understanding by failing to fully appreciate the significance of the quotes I made in my last post.

And further, until you get older and have the chance to experience and explore more of life and this world and demonstrate some wisdom and experience about things in this world, accept the fact that others have experienced far more than you.

Accept the fact that I know a lot more than you about what I am talking about.

Here is my second challenge to you: Share with my your knowledge of the types of excursions I am discussing so that it is evident that you have a position from which to challenge my offer. If you can't do that, then go away kid, and come back when you are about fifteen years older and better able to avoid being a snot and less inclined to naive assumptions and an attitude indicating that you have already experienced most things.

Edited by - bishop_pass on December 22, 2001 4:16:22 PM
_______________________________
"To understand the horse you'll find that you're going to be working on yourself. The horse will give you the answers and he will question you to see if you are sure or not."
- Ray Hunt, in Think Harmony With Horses
ALU - SHRDLU - WORDNET - CYC - SWALE - AM - CD - J.M. - K.S. | CAA - BCHA - AQHA - APHA - R.H. - T.D. | 395 - SPS - GORDIE - SCMA - R.M. - G.R. - V.C. - C.F.
I think this is bishop_pass'' idea of a personal ad.

Likes long walks on the beach. Likes music; loves to dance. Can take you places no other man ever could (provided you bring handcuffs and a riding crop).


j/k
quote: Original post by krez
you misunderstand me. i simply do not believe that going to such a place with you as a guide would be good in any way. i''d prefer to go by myself (or with someone who could hold a decent conversation). i do not appreciate your attempt to underestimate my ability to perceive and appreciate things. and i am not the one with a problem with "the realm of practical reason."


Hmmm, how could you be a judge of my ability to hold a decent conversation? The two different threads in which you have addressed me, you have taken the attitude of an attacker with his own preconceived notions (which are becoming increasingly apparent are quite limited). In responding to such individuals, I have few kind or conversational words.

As for you going by yourself, I don''t think you have the knowledge necessary. By knowledge, I mean knowledge of the places to go, how to get there, how to route find, what the dangers are, etc. I ordinarily would have granted you some semblance of knowing these things, but your posts continue to demonstrate otherwise.

As I proposed in my last post, please indicate that you do indeed actually have knowledge and expereince regarding these things. Also, if you have, say, been over Lamarck Col into the Evolution Basin or up the North Fork of Lone Pine Creek then maybe I might believe that you have earned the right to judge the merits of such endeavors.
_______________________________
"To understand the horse you'll find that you're going to be working on yourself. The horse will give you the answers and he will question you to see if you are sure or not."
- Ray Hunt, in Think Harmony With Horses
ALU - SHRDLU - WORDNET - CYC - SWALE - AM - CD - J.M. - K.S. | CAA - BCHA - AQHA - APHA - R.H. - T.D. | 395 - SPS - GORDIE - SCMA - R.M. - G.R. - V.C. - C.F.
quote: Original post by TerranFury
I think this is bishop_pass'' idea of a personal ad.


Nope. Just trying to show Lord of the Rings fans (of which most on these boards seem to be) what kind of powerful experiences can be had out there that are real, as opposed to vicarious experiences through movie screens, printed pages, or computer monitors.

_______________________________
"To understand the horse you'll find that you're going to be working on yourself. The horse will give you the answers and he will question you to see if you are sure or not."
- Ray Hunt, in Think Harmony With Horses
ALU - SHRDLU - WORDNET - CYC - SWALE - AM - CD - J.M. - K.S. | CAA - BCHA - AQHA - APHA - R.H. - T.D. | 395 - SPS - GORDIE - SCMA - R.M. - G.R. - V.C. - C.F.

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