SuperVGA said:

NikiTo said:

SuperVGA said:
I have no idea where you quoted the above from, but “we own all your thoughts” has never been presented by any one of my employers so far. If you come up with something derivative or direct copying, sure, there's a case - but if the thought doesn't tangent the work performed for the employer? I doubt it.

https://www.gamedev.net/forums/topic/706929-how-to-protect-my-hobby-projects-if-im-gonna-start-working-at-a-company/5426504/?page=1

Ahh, ok - well, of course you should tread carefully when signing a contract, but a company doesn't own whatever you think of, or any work conducted in the spare time by default.

I never said this.

My position is that, in practice, if you work in your free time in the same field as the field of your company, the company can grab it. As it is said in the snipped from Harvard i posted, even the act of compiling your program on the computer of the university(company) can be used as an excuse by your company to grab your project.
If your company hire Saul Goodman, he could report your git as containing proprietary content, or abusing the guidelines of the community. During the hearings in court, your git will be not accessible, because the staff of git will be in a process of checking it because of the report. So you lose, the company wins. Your employer could blame you of sexually harassing his secretary who is from the racial and ideological minority. This will greatly reduce your chances of wining in court.

Resuming it - before betting on your IP, imagine you face Saul Goodman in court.

Shaarigan said:
On the other hand is it a benefit for an emplyoer to hire people that do hobby projects of the same kind or at least in the same field as the company theire hired of because people tend to bring their knowledge into the company if they feel valued. A problem at work can be solved from experience gathered from a hobby project and both parties benefit from it.

This is a very valid point.
A worker will render better if he enjoys what he does. But then, i would make him bring his hobby to the company, and block all his side projects. “You love to make games? You will do games only for me now. Stop your hobby games for the period you work for me.”

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Another thing we forgot to mention is the practical importance of an applicant. If the applicant has no portfolio, no good knowledge, no outstanding talents, he hardly can impose his demands on a job interview. If you have no portfolio, i would not call my lawyer to come over and write a new contract for you. “You sign the same contract i printed for everybody and if you don't do, you are free to leave. When you are leaving, tell the next applicant to enter, please!”

NikiTo said:

SuperVGA said:

NikiTo said:

SuperVGA said:
I have no idea where you quoted the above from, but “we own all your thoughts” has never been presented by any one of my employers so far. If you come up with something derivative or direct copying, sure, there's a case - but if the thought doesn't tangent the work performed for the employer? I doubt it.

https://www.gamedev.net/forums/topic/706929-how-to-protect-my-hobby-projects-if-im-gonna-start-working-at-a-company/5426504/?page=1

Ahh, ok - well, of course you should tread carefully when signing a contract, but a company doesn't own whatever you think of, or any work conducted in the spare time by default.

I never said this.

I know - we're discussing that quote…

NikiTo said:
My position is that, in practice, if you work in your free time in the same field as the field of your company, the company can grab it. As it is said in the snipped from Harvard i posted, even the act of compiling your program on the computer of the university(company) can be used as an excuse by your company to grab your project. If your company hire Saul Goodman, he could report your git as containing proprietary content, or abusing the guidelines of the community. During the hearings in court, your git will be not accessible, because the staff of git will be in a process of checking it because of the report. So you lose, the company wins. Your employer could blame you of sexually harassing his secretary who is from the racial and ideological minority. This will greatly reduce your chances of wining in court

If you're not prepared, sure, that could, in theory happen, I'm sure this is also much more likely in the US, though.
It's of course important to not mix the two; it's dangerous territory to not use company devices for company tasks and vice-versa.
That being said, if one already has a company, declares what it does etc. upon employment, the case for the employer is going to be tougher. I don't know if Saul Goodman would have any case around these parts, with the other stuff mentioned, but I doubt it.

E: I just got that you were playing the devils advocate by including Saul Goodman. Yeah, absolutely - better be safe than sorry.

OP said he lives in Sweden. That's a very civilized country. By default, no bad things will happen there. Just don't sign contracts with a red guy … hooves, horns, evil grin … a paragraph about changing ownership of an unspecified soul thing, … and you're ok :-)

@supervga It very much depends of the project.
If the project is just some tetris, who cares.
If the project promises a great future, then one should take extra precaution.

I sound pessimistic as usual, but if the project is not important, who cares!

If the project is good and after one year working for a company, the game project of the company fails and your own project succeeds…. somebody will be very mad at you and could try to consume his revenge. Human factor is a b*tch. Needless to say, that if you are suing with your company, the most if not all of your colleagues will defend the one who still pays them- “Nothing personal, i just have a family to feed”.

A side note - many people could think that “non-commercial” is like an universal permission. But this should be taken with care…

A side note 2 - there could be traps in the contract. For example- "if the employee steals pencils from the office, clauses from 4.0 to 4.5 lose their effect(the clause that protects your project)". Then only thing the employer has to do is make few pencils disappear. To put it in a simpler impossible way.

NikiTo said:
A worker will render better if he enjoys what he does. But then, i would make him bring his hobby to the company, and block all his side projects. “You love to make games? You will do games only for me now. Stop your hobby games for the period you work for me.”

In some countries like mine, this is completely illegal. Employer has no right to ask about hobbies (just asking is breaking the law, as with any other private things - from family to where you're going for holiday … this being said though, people are people in the end - and eventually they will small talk about such things, although that is technically unofficial and you are not forced to give out answer). When talking business though, it is something different.

When you start a business in a DIFFERENT area of business than the one you are employed for (not the one that is written next to company name, as that can be multiple areas - if a company builds buildings and makes software at once, and you are employer to work in construction - they can't prevent you from making software for profit, as you weren't employed as software developer), the company must not limit you in any way, they can't even ask you about that.

When you start business in SAME area of business you are required to ask your employer for permission (now when area is software development it includes any software - from making weather forecast software to games).

The only exception is when you work for state, in that case you have to ask for permission for any kind of business (it is generally granted unless you work in higher management, there are some requirements though - to prevent conflict of interests (like, you running company that asks for govt. support where you would be the responsible one who decides whether they get it or not)).

@Vilem Otte I understand. But in practice things are very different. I applied to a programming school and they did a LOT of illegal things to me.

That country was in the top most first world countries. Not USA, in northern europe. One of these many illegal things was making me show them my photo in order for them to give me the final OK. I was stalled in my application for days until i provide a photo. I tried to be late providing my photo. But they did not pulled back either. I am showing them my photo or no school! Then i had to show them my FB page. I created a new FB page only to can get accepted. Other people were using their personal pages. Later i learned the teachers know all my posts to other students. Then, in that country, it is normal to tell about your personal life in your job application. Employers want you to write about your hobbies and sports in the job application. Then the school gathered the teachers and voted me out of the schools which is again completely illegal. But you are in a foreign country. You have not the same rights as the locals.

I know, theoretically- “you have the same human rights everywhere” bla bla bla (sorry, i am not mocking you, i mock the system), but in practice things are very very different than in theory.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
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I mean, in theory - “Take your personal lawyer, personal notary and bodyguard to the job interview”
but in practice, one is signing anything if he badly needs income. And employers know it and abuse of it.
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And unless you wear a hidden microphone, they can ask you anything and they will ask. Legal or not. They will ask, and you can not prove it, unless you wear spy hardware.

Everywhere is more or less the same. But some countries are much worse than others. For example, in my country i showed up in the office of the police and asked if they offer job positions like a policeman….. they laughed loud out to me and asked “who is your father, boy? ahahahaahahahahahahaah”. You need a blood line to get there. My country is third world sh*thole. But the same applies to any country, just in lesser scale. I lived in many. Not as a tourist, but as a student and an immigrant. And legally for long periods of time.

They caught an employer paying to his workers in food and roof, for Pete's sake!, and this happened in Spain!!! Not in Africa.

Theory - the day of your wedding ceremony.
Practice - the day of your divorce.

Can always just use an alias for publishing if you worry about copyright theft. Then suggest a few clarifications to the contract when you leave the company so that they can never press bullshit charges against you. If they don't plan to steal a low-budget hobby project, they will be happy to have a clear line drawn between theirs and yours.

My current solution is to work in a different but related line of business in the industry that I'm interested in.

I'm an administrative type so it's usually ok.

But it really depends on the employer.

Some game companies allow hobby work others do not. Best to ask them about their policies.

Don't use any work computer to work on your hobby and it should be fine.