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How to protect my hobby projects if I'm gonna start working at a company?

Started by May 10, 2020 06:21 AM
28 comments, last by GeneralJist 4 years, 1 month ago

Zansin said:
Do I need to ask for a special type of contract for this? Which I mean, ask for protection of my hobby projects?

Please redirect me to the correct forums if I did come to the wrong forums… I apologize if I did.

When you are employed, many employers present you with an employment contract to sign. Read it carefully. If it has a clause about this matter, make a list of the projects you are working on and ask to have it appended to the contract. That documents what projects you own and the company does not own. If the contract states that stuff you work on while employed belong to the company, then you kinda have to not work on side stuff while employed.

Since this is an employment question, the thread has been moved to the Career forum. No apology necessary.

-- Tom Sloper -- sloperama.com

Thanks a lot for all these answers!

I think by combining all the answers is that first and foremost, Read the contract and understand it (if possible).
Also contact a lawyer specialized in my country and in this game industry area for more information on how it goes in Sweden.
Of course, if I don't understand the contract and still signs it, I might just have to skip my hobbies then and do something unrelated to game development.

Thanks for moving the thread to the correct place! :D

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NikiTo said:
I would not hire a person who wants to work in the same field in his free time.

[blah blah blah on and on about what ‘I’ would/wouldn't do if ‘I’ were the boss]

This isn't relative or helpful at all.

🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂<←The tone posse, ready for action.

Vilem Otte said:
People will share their advice and point of view on similar situations.

@fleabay are you chasing after me in the forums?

NikiTo said:

If you had an idea about a game while you worked for a game company, the company owns it. Period.
If you work for a pharmaceutic company and your work consists in discovering antibiotics, but you invent a pomade for hair loss in your free time, the company owns that pomade.

As long as OP isn't stealing ideas (as long as they're original, they “had” them), I don't think the first point is true at all.

I don't think all compaines can claim the right to work performed in the employee's free time, either.

But of course it may matter where you live, if somebody legally owns you etc. Kindly provide sources.

@SuperVGA The MAIN error lot of people do is to think theoretically.
Theoretically it is yes.
Practically it is a no.

If you hobby game is of interest for your game company, they can take it. You can bet on it.
It will be not a matter of morals. Not a matter of “did the employee steal the idea or not”. It will be a matter of court's decision.

Let me give you a near quote -


Always try to think practically.

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NikiTo said:

Let me give you a near quote -


Always try to think practically.

And on that good note - how about a citing a ruling? I have no idea where you quoted the above from, but “we own all your thoughts” has never been presented by any one of my employers so far. If you come up with something derivative or direct copying, sure, there's a case - but if the thought doesn't tangent the work performed for the employer? I doubt it.

SuperVGA said:
I have no idea where you quoted the above from, but “we own all your thoughts” has never been presented by any one of my employers so far. If you come up with something derivative or direct copying, sure, there's a case - but if the thought doesn't tangent the work performed for the employer? I doubt it.

https://www.gamedev.net/forums/topic/706929-how-to-protect-my-hobby-projects-if-im-gonna-start-working-at-a-company/5426504/?page=1

NikiTo said:

SuperVGA said:
I have no idea where you quoted the above from, but “we own all your thoughts” has never been presented by any one of my employers so far. If you come up with something derivative or direct copying, sure, there's a case - but if the thought doesn't tangent the work performed for the employer? I doubt it.

https://www.gamedev.net/forums/topic/706929-how-to-protect-my-hobby-projects-if-im-gonna-start-working-at-a-company/5426504/?page=1

Ahh, ok - well, of course you should tread carefully when signing a contract, but a company doesn't own whatever you think of, or any work conducted in the spare time by default.

NikiTo said:
If you hobby game is of interest for your game company, they can take it. You can bet on it. It will be not a matter of morals. Not a matter of “did the employee steal the idea or not”. It will be a matter of court's decision.

Don't know which country you live in but in Euroe this is highly regulated and some countries especially have a very restrictive law about ownership. The clause “we own all your work” is often added into contracts but isn't valid in any circumstances. Stuff you did outside of your working hours and ourside of your day-to-day tasks are not covered by this clause. If you fix a bug outside of your working hours in code that is related to your day-to-day job, this counts as work implicitly and so falls to the “we own all your work” clause as well regardless. It doesn't matter when you do it, it does matter what you do.

This is why game companies have those clauses “ you shall not do something similar to what our company does” in their contracts, which is absolutely legal (in my country). This ‘no-competition clause’ is a protection for the employer to not spend his money to the employee who in the end takes all the knowledge or even customers to sell his own work to them for a higher pay rate as the employer offers. There should be no discussion about the sense of this clause at all!

But even employees are still humans (even if some companies think different about this topic) and so humans are free of speech and opinion. This also covers knowledge, work and ideas they do outside of their working hours and not related to their work if commercial or related to their work if uncommercial is also completely valid. If an emplyoee writes a story for your game and instead takes the good ideas for a book, this is valid because he/she is free in his/her speech and opinion. You can't do anything about it!

Btw. asking people for their hobbies and don't hire them if they do something similar in their spare-time is illegal in my country. I'm honest at this point and I also don't offer everything of my ideas and knowledge to my employer. This is for a simple reason, I invest my spare time to gather that knowledge and the company isn't paying for it so they don't get it. But to tell the whole story, my company is fine with my after-work-work.

On the other hand is it a benefit for an emplyoer to hire people that do hobby projects of the same kind or at least in the same field as the company theire hired of because people tend to bring their knowledge into the company if they feel valued. A problem at work can be solved from experience gathered from a hobby project and both parties benefit from it.

However, even in my country you have to ask your emplyoer to start a secondary career besides your working hours. This is not to block people from having theit hobbies but again to protect the emplyoer paying for you and to ensure you're not spending more working hours into your own stuff than into teh contratced work so that your contracted work suffers from it in the end.

@zansin if you really want to get sure that nobody can steal your work, you should place it in a public spot like GitHub and add a propper license to it. AGPLv3 for example is a good one as it forces everybody to publish work that is based of your work to an also public spot. So if your emplyoer would steal your work and you can proof it (which is very easy as there are services to compare code bases used for example by universities to proof plagiarism) it would force the company to publish all their source code and this is something they don't risk at all. That's why IT companies are very strict in checking a source's license before taking just a piece of it

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