So I bet this topic was enough discussed here, but I'll still try with my problem:

So, I've worked for 2 years in a indi gamedev company with great ambitions. Finally the company went to bankrupt. I've asked the permission to use the framework I've created for the game myself, as I have an idea of a way simpler game, using the same mechanics. The CEO granted it to me (even have some legal stuff, etc). 

I have a small team on paper, and I've calculated the development cost, that would be around 30.000USD (including a small release PR). I have have about 10-12000USD that I can can spare on this project, so let's say that I'm lacking 15.000USD, that may seem like a not so big sum, but i've discovered that is quite hard to fund.

-First I thought about bank loans, but I've met a lot of difficulties, banks seem to be frighten by loaning to gamedev companies. I can't take a personal loan neither, because I've changed 3 countries of residence past 3 years, so my credit/income story is inexistant.

-Secondly I've though about private investors and FFF. I have some contacts/promesses, but it still unreliable for the moment. So question here: Is there some centralized sires/plateforms where you can seek investors into gamedev (I tried some local platforms, but people are even more frightened by game industry then banks). 

-Crowdfunding. I don't believe that in 2018 a noname studio that don't have a big PR asset (like a renowned team member, a license to use a setting or at least a trailer made by a known animation studio) can't hope to get anything from kickstarter and such. Also for the moment we only have code and a desdoc, which is not very sexy for crowdfunding. Going that way means that I'll have to spend my money on PR things, with the risk of don't get any money.

So did I miss some possibilities? What are your experience with that?

2 hours ago, Telemachos said:

banks seem to be frighten by loaning to gamedev companies

More like they have experience with game companies; most developers fail. You at least seem to have a grasp on costs and things.

2 hours ago, Telemachos said:

Is there some centralized sires/plateforms where you can seek investors into gamedev

Make a blog, here or on a other popular blog site. Around a month or two months into a project you will be approached by all kinds of people.

Some are investors, people willing do invest around $50 - $500 hoping to get a increase on it. Most are volunteers, artist, composers and programmers. Normally they will add something to the game and leave, some are willing to stay for long term.

The blogs are a bit of work. Because you need to really work at them to get something from them. I for example put the full design document up, adding storyboards and images to clearly show my design to possible investors. I use: http://vue.tufts.edu/ because it is free. 

That brings me to the other thing. Lots of good software for game development is free or have indie versions that are dirt cheap. Don't waste money on expensive stuff. No software will make your game better, it's hard work that makes quality.

2 hours ago, Telemachos said:

-Crowdfunding. I don't believe that in 2018 a noname studio that don't have a big PR asset

With a good demo you don't need that much PR, give people a chance to see what you are making and you will get funding.

It's not as much as you would expect. This is something a lot of developers fail to realize. Only the top 50 games on crowdfunding sites actually earn a lot that way; because these sites put trending games first. Most average indie games get +/- $500 a month if they are good.

Once you have trickle of money flowing in like this it is easy to keep it going to the end. It's easy to make around $10 000 a year like this once you have something to show.

I've heard of some development studio's, once they've proven themselves by being established ( office space, staff, etc ) have applied for and been given small business grants.  Now this is all hear-say and I have not first hand experience.  But maybe government grants?

Thank you for you answer

5 hours ago, Scouting Ninja said:

Make a blog, here or on a other popular blog site. Around a month or two months into a project you will be approached by all kinds of people.

Some are investors, people willing do invest around $50 - $500 hoping to get a increase on it. Most are volunteers, artist, composers and programmers. Normally they will add something to the game and leave, some are willing to stay for long term.

The problem is that is the project is in  a small scope and I already have a team (just plan to hire a freelancer for UI/Icons). Having the framework already done, I plan to have an early alpha in 2-3 month. Also having a lot of different artist is usually most harming for the project, as each one have his own style. that's was one of the reason of the bankruptcy of the company where I've worked, as the artistic director changed 5 times in two years, and there where periods without any person at this post. 

5 hours ago, Scouting Ninja said:

The blogs are a bit of work. Because you need to really work at them to get something from them. I for example put the full design document up, adding storyboards and images to clearly show my design to possible investors. I use: http://vue.tufts.edu/ because it is free. 

Thist is a variation of the crowdfunding thing. As the game is barely finished code-wise, and not started art-wise I have nothing appealing to show. I had this problem even with potential investors like "ok, I'm interested, show me your game images". I can't show him lines of code). I commissioned an artist to have some theoretical game pics, I'll see if it's gonna ease the thing.

5 hours ago, Scouting Ninja said:

That brings me to the other thing. Lots of good software for game development is free or have indie versions that are dirt cheap. Don't waste money on expensive stuff. No software will make your game better, it's hard work that makes quality.

I'm using Unity and a framework that I've wrote my self. Don't know what the 3D artist is using. but as he's in the game industry since 10 years I suppose he's equipped.  Also IMHO that's a bit controversial - that's probably true for code since most of engines are free nowadays (still, if your're lucky enough to find an ideally fitting stuff on the asset store that could be a lot of work saved). But i don't know to which point you can replace PS with Gimp or 3DSMax with Blender. I had a animator friend that complained a lot about DragonBones (Spine free version) for missing features.

5 hours ago, Scouting Ninja said:

With a good demo you don't need that much PR, give people a chance to see what you are making and you will get funding.

I'm not sure that a demo that is using grey boxes and grey floor instead of characters and environment would be appealing to people. I fear that it will even have the opposite effect.

5 hours ago, Scouting Ninja said:

Once you have trickle of money flowing in like this it is easy to keep it going to the end. It's easy to make around $10 000 a year like this once you have something to show.

The problem here, is that is not really fitting for small projects. As the code is barely done I estimate that I could finish it in a month of full time work, then use 1-2 month for debug, playtest and integrate art. Same for art, the artist told me that he needs about 2-3 three weeks of concept, then about a month of full time to finish all the ingame 3D. As i said before we'll hire a freelancer for UI/Icons, a translator for English version and I have an compositor ready to give a helping hand and do the music for free. 

So it's probable that the moment when we'll have something to show = the moment we have our alpha ready, so we don't really need cash (never hurt for the release PR but far less critical then today). 

5 hours ago, Awoken said:

I've heard of some development studio's, once they've proven themselves by being established ( office space, staff, etc ) have applied for and been given small business grants.  Now this is all hear-say and I have not first hand experience.  But maybe government grants?

I've already checked that. Here (Russia) most of grants for IT/Gamedev companies are about tax and social contributions exemption. That's great for big establish companies, but don't really help to start. 

There is some grants given by big companies, but that's usually indie games contests, so you need at least a playable alpha.

1 hour ago, Telemachos said:

I'm not sure that a demo that is using grey boxes and grey floor instead of characters and environment would be appealing

It's not about appeal, it is about proof.

Imagine a random person walks up to you and tells you they are collecting money for a charity. However the person has no sign, no donation box or any indication that they are indeed collecting for a charity.

You need to proof you are a developer, anyone can claim to be one, so that investors will take note. Then you need to proof progress of the game so that investors know that they aren't just burning money.

If you don't need the money immediately then start a blog and crowd funding campaign using what you have. If you need the money immediately you will need to look for a investor that has so much money, that $15 000 is something they would just give away.

1 hour ago, Telemachos said:

But i don't know to which point you can replace PS with Gimp or 3DSMax with Blender. I had a animator friend that complained a lot about DragonBones (Spine free version) for missing features.

PS can easily be replaced with Gimp on a indie project. Max can be replaced by Blender for 3D modelers, Blender's 3D modeling tools is on par with Max; just the absence of auto topology tools.

Any 2D bone animation software like DragonBones and Spline is just 3D software with missing features. The reason people buy them is to have less clunky ness than 3D software. If you ever make a 2D game, just use Blender and you will have more features than Spline.

13 hours ago, Scouting Ninja said:

It's not about appeal, it is about proof.

Imagine a random person walks up to you and tells you they are collecting money for a charity. However the person has no sign, no donation box or any indication that they are indeed collecting for a charity.

You need to proof you are a developer, anyone can claim to be one, so that investors will take note. Then you need to proof progress of the game so that investors know that they aren't just burning money.

Oh, I misunderstood, I though about a crowdfunding campaign using a no-graphics proof of concept. Yest I'm working on a POC right now.

13 hours ago, Scouting Ninja said:

If you don't need the money immediately then start a blog and crowd funding campaign using what you have. If you need the money immediately you will need to look for a investor that has so much money, that $15 000 is something they would just give away.

This is the tricky point. Most investors that I've seen (I've worked for fundraising for some non gamedev startups) often invest only at 50/50 ratio toward the company capital. most are not interested to invest in captial-less startups, mostly because having the creator putting money in his project from his pocket is a proof of his reliability/confidence toward the project. 

As I said I have about 12000$ savings, that I could use to pay the artist and live myself to work fulltime on the game during the summer, hoping to have an early alpha in September. However I really want to avoid a possible situation when the alpha still need time and money, when I'm totally broke, no investor is interested because company capital is inexistant and no budget for a eventual crowfunding. 

Sure, created code and art may be considered as company assets, and count toward the capital, but in my experience that require quite long (and possibly costly) diligence due processes to acknowledge the fact. 

13 hours ago, Scouting Ninja said:

PS can easily be replaced with Gimp on a indie project. Max can be replaced by Blender for 3D modelers, Blender's 3D modeling tools is on par with Max; just the absence of auto topology tools.

Being no artist myself I have no real arguments about it, except that I've often heard the opposite point of view from professionals.

About the engine, I would not advice someone to work even on an indie project on the free version of unity, the 125$ per month are really not a big deal compared to the time you can lose because of missing feats. Obviously that's true only if you work fulltime on it.

However this is not really an issue for us,as we're already fully equipped software and hardware wise.   

"As I said I have about 12000$ savings, that I could use to pay the artist and live myself to work full-time on the game during the summer, hoping to have an early alpha in September"

One idea could be for yourself not to work full-time on the game but instead get a part-time job you could live of and use none of the money for your own part. The code seamed to have progressed much further than the graphics so maybe you should focus some of your money there and then try to get funding when you have something sexier to show? 

That approach might get you further with your budget but might stretch the timeline..

I do not know how your professional relation is with the artist but something that could save money now is if you could make some deal with the artist to work cheaper now if you offer something in return further down the line.

One example(the numbers might be off):

Lets say the artist wants 30 dollars / hour

If he/she works for 20 dollars now and the initial artist work is good and helps you secure more funding you can pay 35 dollars for further work. It might work if he/she believes strongly in the game and think there will be a lot of 35$/hour work down the line if a good job is done. This might not be possible if there are other better artist opportunities to take or if a lower rate is simply not acceptable.

Just curious, What kind of game are you making?

7 hours ago, Telemachos said:

As I said I have about 12000$ savings, that I could use to pay the artist and live myself to work fulltime on the game during the summer, hoping to have an early alpha in September.

Maybe like @MatsN pointed out, you should look into gaining money by normal means. Freelancing is a good way to earn extra money for games if you are a programmer.

I also know a programmer who thought himself while making games while doing security work.

I think you will have to look into something like this while developing, lots of developers fund their own games with the skills they learned to make games.

7 hours ago, Telemachos said:

About the engine, I would not advice someone to work even on an indie project on the free version of unity, the 125$ per month are really not a big deal compared to the time you can lose because of missing feats.

Are you talking about the old license? The new Unity license gives free users the full engine,, with license constraints. But developing your a game with Unity is free for most part.

If Unity wasn't free it would have lost a lot of developers to Unreal, that is not only free with license constraints; it is also open source to anyone who wants to edit it.

21 hours ago, MatsN said:

One idea could be for yourself not to work full-time on the game but instead get a part-time job you could live of and use none of the money for your own part. The code seamed to have progressed much further than the graphics so maybe you should focus some of your money there and then try to get funding when you have something sexier to show?

That was my original intent, but there were a problem with the artist. As he had a bad period, he honestly warned me, that if we don't work full time, and he receive another fulltime work offer, he'll had to take take it, and that would delay everything greatly.

An option would be to find someone other, but I've already worked with him, he's pro and serious, and besides that he also give me a very good "friend" price, If I'll hire someone of his level I'll have to pay much more.

Anyway, it's a strong possibility if I don't find a solution soon;

21 hours ago, MatsN said:

Just curious, What kind of game are you making?

A remake of a board game I've created several years ago. The player play as a god that have to make his heroes accomplish divines quests. However he doesn't have a direct control on them (in the board game that was represented by the fact that the player who played the heroes, and the player who played the god didn't have the right to communicate, in the game - single player mode, the player has to play as the god, and has only indirect possibilities to guide the heroes).

Besides divines quests, the god have to improve his heroes - sometimes by granting them divines boons, but more often by spawning divine challenges for them. So it's mostly an anticipation game. I'm working on a better description right now.

May look a bit complicated, but as it's a tabletop game adaptation the mechanics and graphics are quite simple (a 3D board with hexagons, and the wandering heroes) and the god powers, represented by cards in his hand. I've commissioned cards to an artist when I did the tabletop game, and still have the full arts, but we'll see if we use them - as the original game was settled in Celtic mythology, and we may change that. 

16 hours ago, Scouting Ninja said:

Are you talking about the old license? The new Unity license gives free users the full engine,, with license constraints. But developing your a game with Unity is free for most part.

If Unity wasn't free it would have lost a lot of developers to Unreal, that is not only free with license constraints; it is also open source to anyone who wants to edit it.

The pro version of Unity is still not free (125$ per month) and may be really useful over the free version. I don't think that Unity and Unreal are really competing, there used for very different projects, and have a quite different architecture. 

So, good news, we found the money. I post here a small synopsis of what happened, maybe it could help somebody in our situation in the future. 

What didn't worked:

-Banks. I've applied to a loan in 50+ banks and received only two positive answers, both for a sum less that I'd applied and on very bad conditions. If you have a good income you can in theory apply for a personal loan, but condition are bad (compare to corporative loans), and it's far more risky, as if the project fail you'd have to pay everything from your pocket anyway.

-P2P lending sites, investors platforms. Sadly enough 100% of propositions that we received were obvious scam, or just random weirdoos.

-Editors: Editors are not funding games. They can help with part of the funding, but usually they take care only of the PR part. That's what I've learned by contacting editors. Also that was my first contact with them, and I was surprised to learn that they take so much parts of the game. I sign an NDA with moth of them, but I believe that I don't break the law by saying that it's about 60-70%

What didn't worked but still was useful

-Venture capitals. I applied in about 200 ventures, in different countries. Only 10 answered to me, and nobody was interested. Ventures prefers long term project that can generate insane amount of money in 2+ years, and not really interested by a game that cost 30000USD to create and that will bring 60000USD on steam at best. it was still interesting, as I managed to get some interviews with managers, and some og them give me good advice, and one even gave me contacts of several private investors that could be interested by the project. 

-Indie Game Contests/Crowdfunding: Both of them have the same problem - you need at least a VERY good prototype, or an alpha to have a chance to be funded by them. So it's more a disguised early access/PR campaign. However if you have the initial funding, they can be an (unreliable) fund source. I've monitored Indie Contests, and I saw about 20 of them worldwide in just two past month, with prizes going from 1000 to 20000USD. Yes, you have to win them to get the prize, but the concurrence isn't really overhelming if you have a good project.

What worked at the end 

-A bit sad, but essentially networking. After spamming for a month every person that I've met during the 3 years of work in the game industry, I've found an interested investor. I've also spammed a lot of random "rich" people (some that I knew, some adviced by other people, some totally random people that i've found contacts on the web). There were some chances on this side too, but the first method worked first.

I've worked in fundraising for non-gaming companies, so I can compare a bit, here is my thoughts:

-Fundraising in indi gamedev is very chaotic, and not organised. The method of "spam random people and see what's you get" was the sole one we could use in the early 10's, before the startupomania. While I could admit that the startup trend wasn't entirely a good thing, at least it's created a lots of funding hubs that can be also used for non startup companies. Most of them are not existing in the indiegamedev and that's a pity.

-Network is even more important then in ordinary fundraising campaigns. I regret that I've didn't been on a lot of gaming industry events (mostly because they cost a lot, so I've been only at those where my ex-company were present), and didn't really networked there (usually I was just taking care of the stand).

I'll edit this message if I'll have some more ideas^^.

Also I've decided to open a small developers blog as soon as we'll have something to show here.