Recently I've been discussing with a Person about the chance of making a game, he posted some times ago an help request (he was an artist) for programming. and he mentioned a really nice idea for a game that I really liked, however when he replied I found the idea was already changed to a much simpler game (see below)

I proposed him the following thing:

- I Create a prototype test of the game in 1 week

- Try to kickstart it

- If kickstart is success I get paid for 1 week plus the time requried to end the game (my estimate, was 2 months for a release on 4 different operative system, basically I already told my price for the work, i though it was a really honest price for a complete and refined game with all kind of fine animations in UI etc.)
- If kickstart fails I ask nothing.

- he takes full royalty on his game (basically I ask only for hours-labor pay and then he is free to sell his game etc, I was pretty sure I'll be contacted again for other games)

Seems in the meanwhile he was contacted by another programmer, I suspect the main reason for changing the game type was that the original idea was "too hard to implement", also that programmer had "his own 3D engine" (I had mine too, but I wanted to stay with Unity for the project because for that kind of game a custom engine was basically useless) that would be able to ship the game to just 1 platform (windows).

Basically the artist had the choice:

- Made the game with me, no need to pay if kickstarter fail, if kickstarter is success I ask for honest pay and then he retains full royalty. Development time 2 months (4 months for the other complex game idea) and shipping for 4 different platforms (and eventually more in future).

- Make the game with other programmer who want at all cost to use custom engine, ask no pay but for royalty, Development time 6 months (and only for the simple idea, which is by the way a 2D game), and shipping for only 1 platform.


Seems somewhat he was concinved for the other programmer because a "custom engine was better", I already told him I had a custom engine too, and that I would never use it or other custom engines because of "reliability and development time", also I was able to implement his original idea while the other programmer refused.

So why the heck he refused to work with me? Just because I asked a pay upfront (and only in the case of a kickstarter success).

Unfortunately people can only speculate and no one else will be able to speculate as good as you (on this topic). The only one who really knows is the person you mention, have you asked them why? Send a polite email asking how you could have done things differently.

I am no expert on Kickstarter, I don't know what it costs etc but option 2 seems like the safer option from a financial loss point of view. Doesn't Kickstarter also hold some of your funds too in case people want their money back? That's further reason to avoid paying people upfront for their work.

I don't think you're doing anything wrong and the no pay if Kickstarter fails also helps lower risk for people. I don't think it's unfair to ask to be paid for the work you are doing but choosing programmer A (you) means less risk to programmer A and more risk for the other guy. Choosing programmer B means the risk is more even for both parties - that obviously comes at the costs of reduced future earnings.

I can only see his choice being one of risk reduction (which you took steps to reduce too). You do offer multiple platforms with Unity but doesn't Unity start to take a cut if your game starts to make a certain amount? Perhaps that's a factor too.

Note: I can never really be too sure why, so below are personal opinions, speculations and projections based on other experiences

Also your post indicates you proposed kickstarter to the artist, you didn't state if he/she feels ok with Kickstarter. So...

To my mind there are two things "the project owner doesn't want kickstarter and also the other programmer shows more belief in the artist's project".

Both of you (programmers) have different models, neither is wrong, but the royalty model is less risky to project owner (assuming the artist doesn't want kickstarter), more affordable to him/her and indicates that the other programmer believes more in the success of the project more than you do. If he doesn't want kickstarter then - What if he doesn't have upfront capital to pay you?

By going for the royalty model your rival is saying "when you earn, I will get paid, and I kind of believe your game will sell anyway so my labour would still be rewarded"

Again you never mentioned if the artist was interested in kickstarter or not. If the artist is not, then Irrespective of whether its a reasonable upfront payment or not, it is independent of affordability

As for your decision not to use your custom engine, - I doubt if this is relevant in his decision, as long as the other programmer gives the assurance it can be done with his custom engine. Don't forget he would also have the capability to use Unity anyway if need be

I can never be really too sure but slightly longer development time for the other programmer may also indicate to him -"patience to work more thoroughly on the project and less desperation".

And all these combinations comes across as a big 'plus' for the other programmer

- I Create a prototype test of the game in 1 week - Try to kickstart it - If kickstart is success

Creating a successful kickstarter campaign is a month's worth of work, on top of (and completely unrelated to) the prototype itself. Running a successful kickstarter campaign is another month of work.

You've not listed any time/work for creating or running the campaign, which means it would've failed.

Even if you were prepared to run a real campaign, a one-week's-work prototype probably doesn't warrant two month's of fundraising work. Put more work into the prototype first :)

The kickstarter was a idea of him. I never thinked of royalty as a "I believe in it". Actually I would prefer myself to hire someone who don't ask for royalties, but that made me thinking about that. Most projects simply fail, people believing in them or not, If I need to make a living from gamedev I could not simply hope to get some royalties (also how do you check they do not cheat on giving royalties? are there tool to check real income of something?) some money in immediate is much better when you have to pay bills etc and you are already doing overtime programming.

If I need to make a living from gamedev I could not simply hope to get some royalties (also how do you check they do not cheat on giving royalties? are there tool to check real income of something?) some money in immediate is much better when you have to pay bills etc and you are already doing overtime programming.

You were then not a business partner of his, but an aspiring employee with possible royalty claims. This ment to him you did not show safe level of dedication and support for his project, since he wanted it to be "your" project. You had no time to invest, instead you critically asked for pay- it was clearly not his idea of partner for that project.

maybe the other programmer simply has much more experience that you do. and that fact came to light during his interactions with both you and the other programmer.

if he won't tell you why you didn't get the job, there's no real way to know.

all else being equal , i'd go with the guy who only asks for profit sharing, and no upfront pay.

maybe you were simply under-bid.

His project is very likely not to produce any meaningful income, so having to pay royalties is significantly cheaper than having to pay for development time.


L. Spiro