Welcome to PC gaming in 2010 or so. Companies will release games for the lowest common denominator as target, then, if they're nice, just launch hi-res texture packs that eat up the remaining VRAM of the higher end setups so people can mentally justify what they paid for them.

PS4.5 and Xbox OnePointFive

What a joke the console industry has become. Since the need to upgrade your console (to stay relevant) is now more frequent than PC there is really no reason to own a console except for a few PS4 exclusives.

As a consumer I'd probably be pissed if I owned a ps4/Xbone :lol:

And many are... yet I am failing a little bit to understand WHY exactly they are this pissed (I understand the guys that bought their consoles months ago, not aware of the rumours doing the rounds at the time).

I see that some might not be aware of the rules about backwards compatibility for ALL games at least Sony put in place, or might not trust them.

But many seem to be salty that their 400$ investment from 2 years ago is now overshadowed by the fact that a 400-500$ (we don't know yet how Sony prices the Neo) investment this year would result in better graphics in the games they can play on their consoles too.

- Nobody is forced to upgrade, as games should all be backward compatible... if we can believe Sony and devs really keep to that.

- Their 400$ bought them a pretty decent low midrange gaming PC at the time, and they would have been able to get good entertainment out of it for almost 3 years when the Neo start hitting the shelves. Given how console devs HAVE to optimize their games for the low specs of the PS4, while many guys on PC with similar low powered hardware costing considerably more to buy in 2013/2014, had to fight with quality settings to get some AAA games running on their hardware in the last few years, that is not too bad.

- nobody comes and steals their consoles from their TV stands. Just because it is not "top of the line" sooner than expected doesn't mean a lot. Consoles are never top of the line... I think many console gamers just are oblivious to that fact, but a lot of saltiness stems from a weird inferiority complex for not having the best in town anymore.

There are of course concerns I do understand, but these are not voiced so often:

- PSVR might only work on the Neo (given the PS4 weak hardware, that wouldn't surprise me, and might have resulted in a subpar VR expierience anyway, but I can understand the fear)

- devs might just ignore Sonys ruling, and Sony might not enforce it, so there might be PS4 Neo only games (even if, is that so bad? Most big AAA releases will target both for the sake of maximizing the potential audience, and if some less expensive release forgoes optimizing for the old PS4, well, sooner than expected, but that happens to any console at some point)

- This might become a trend (Which is not unlikely, even though Sony and MS said otherwise... at least until game streaming becomes viable for the masses).

Lets be honest here though: at the moment technological advancement speed for TVs is quite high. Consoles, which have always utilized cheap components, struggle to keep up. If Sony and MS left their current consoles as is for another 4-5 years, 4k HDR screens might have become mainstream, refresh rates might have already gone up beyond 60 Hz for TV screens, 8k might be the new early adopter thing. At the same time VR MIGHT have pulled off, with VR Goggles for PC being 2x 4k screens with 120Hz+ refresh rates, HDR, and whatnot.

While the current gen of consoles still struggles to pull off 60Hz in the then legacy resolution of 1080p., lets not talk of PSVR... Yes, you might get an extremly decent upgrade in 5 years if the PS5 would come out then. But in the 5 years until then, game PCs might pull away so fast that consoles would more and more struggle, at least on the value front, to keep up with cheap gaming PCs (See some of the rumoured new AMD Offerings).

The customer might care even less about this, but I still believe the old SoC in the current PS4 will no longer be produced by AMD in 2017... not unless Sony pays them a considerable sum to keep a 28nm fab open. Sony HAD to move to different consoles. They choose to not only go for a slim version of the console (which might not be anounced yet the way MS did, but might also come out soon), but also an upgraded ones (given AMD MIGHT have given them a discount on the SoC redesign because of the 28nm fab closure, that would make a lot of sense to use that time for a spec bump).

The slim versions of the consoles coming out this or next year are GUARANTEED to also have a SoC upgraded to Polaris/Zen. The HDMI2.0 Connection of the XBox Slim kinda gave it away. It just uses the newer architecture and smaller process to shrink the console instead of growing the specs... shrinking the XBone to 40% its original size most probably wouldn't have been possible without a considerable rework of the internal components, including a smaller and more efficient SoC.

As a PC gamer, I welcome the new consoles... don't know if it really means games will be less bound to the smallest common denominator (the old PS4, or worse, the old XBox), or if it is actually true some devs hold back PC game performance artificially (or just don't remove limits when console games are brought to PC), but if this age-old PC Gamer wisdom has any kind of merits, this is good news for anyone who has a somewhat new, decent gaming PC.

As a console gamer, I might now actually buy a PS4. I am interested in Horizon Dawn, and Naughty dog often puts out good PS exclusives. There is no killer app yet on the PS4, and the lacking power was also holding me back... I do not intend to accept below 1080p resolution or games locked to 30Hz in 2016 (or 2014, for that matter)... not from a device that costs me still around 300$, and with higher game prices.

Now that I can get a PS4 that guarantees 1080p/60Hz, I might actually give Sony my money, given it is 400$ or below. I will not buy too many games for it, having a powerful PC, but it might serve me well as mediaplayer and for some of the exclusives.

If there WOULD have been killer apps, games I would had to buy (a new Soul Calibur only coming out on consoles, new versions of JRPGs only coming out on consoles, and so on), and I would have bought the PS4 despite its lacking power even at release, I still wouldn't be too salty about it.

I don't care for 4k, will replace my 1080p TV in 2-3 years, earliest.

I don't care for VR yet, PSVR might not be bad, but even with the Neo, the power is just not there to drive it. And VR is still too rough around the edges for my liking.

I don't care if my console is not the fastest thing in the universe. It never was. It was just a cheap gaming PC with an optimized OS and quite high game prices in the day and age of Steam sales. A faster console does not make mine slower, and I will only start to feel salty if a newer game comes out that I need to play, is not coming to PC, and is only playable on the Neo. Until that happens, I would trust Sony and the fact that there are 40 million PS4 out there, and devs/publishers certainly want their money too.

I'm wondering - how many of these game counsels will have "always online DRM" built in?

This will become an issue down the road when the "next next gen" is released, and the "old gen" servers go down permanently ...

I'm wondering - how many of these game counsels will have "always online DRM" built in?

This will become an issue down the road when the "next next gen" is released, and the "old gen" servers go down permanently ...

When next-next gen kicks in, is when emulation starts being viable though, anyway. For example, huge progress in rpcs3 in the past few months.

PS4.5 and Xbox OnePointFive

That was how I interpreted the announcement as well.

They forgot a bit of history. Either launch as a full product increment or don't launch at all.

Virtually every time companies have launched an incremental improvement to a console either through a mid-platform upgrade or an optional hardware component, it has been little more than a footnote. Even when it gets widely adopted, the base unit is much more widely adopted.

PS4 has 40 million units sold already. A business can target the PS4.5 with X potential customers, or PS4 with X+40M potential customers.

While the extra cool stuff might be fun for developers and consumers, the business decision is going to include those extra 40M consoles already present in people's homes. There will of course be a small number of products targeting it, but the vast majority will continue to target the base units.

The Nintendo DSi was a huge improvement over the original Nintendo DS. But because the market share was tiny in comparison, it only had five cartridge games created. Nintendo's first foray into data storage on the NES was used by four games.

Sega Genesis 32X add-on was a powerful co-processor for the system to seriously upgrade its processing power. It was computationally powerful and on paper was expected to have over a million preorders. Ultimately only just over a half million units sold. Few games were launched on the platform because people could either target the base system or move on to the upcoming next generation of hardware.

This will almost certainly meet the same fate. A few games will use it, but business people will primarily stick with the base platform because that's where the full customer base is.

As a consumer I'd probably be pissed if I owned a ps4/Xbone :lol:

PS4 has 40 million units sold already. A business can target the PS4.5 with X potential customers, or PS4 with X+40M potential customers.

[...]

This will almost certainly meet the same fate. A few games will use it, but business people will primarily stick with the base platform because that's where the full customer base is.

In Microsoft's case, however, it might work out well. The XBone has only sold 20 million so far, and has the stigma of being the "weaker" of the two consoles, and less-cool, so by them one-upping the PS4's (and the PS4.5's) hardware, it could let them retake some lost ground. Ofcourse, ultimately, the games are what will determine its success.

For both the PS4 and the Xbone, (as you know) console sales are different than actual install base. Some consumers buy more than one of the same console for things like collector-edition versions. Other consumers have their consoles break and replace them.

If Microsoft can get their console out the door (currently they say late 2017), not only is it likely that the new console will ultimately outnumber their old console's sales, but with the old consoles continuing to break over the years, most of their earlier customers will upgrade within a few years. Sony has a much larger install base to transfer over than Microsoft does.

Some customers will sell their consoles to GameStop and buy the upgraded one. That'll inflate the numbers somewhat, but to what extent, I don't know. When Nintendo released the 'New 3DS', they teamed up with GameStop to let customers trade in their old 3DS for a heavily discounted new version. I don't know if that actually helped the transition though. Nintendo also pushed non-backwards compatible games right off the bat, as well.

Both Microsoft and Sony promised that all games will be backwards compatible. What I think they actually intend though, is "all games will be backwards compatible for the first year and a half", as consumers gradually upgrade to the newer models, then some games requiring exclusivity will start to come out and force the rest to update or not based off of how badly they want those games.

As a consumer I'd probably be pissed if I owned a ps4/Xbone :lol:

And many are... yet I am failing a little bit to understand WHY exactly they are this pissed (I understand the guys that bought their consoles months ago, not aware of the rumours doing the rounds at the time).

Consumers don't have to make sense or base their feeling on logic :D
If you buy a box for $200 and next week John buys the same box for $100, you feel like you paid too much, even though you were happy at the time.
If you buy a box for $200 and next week John buys a better box for $200, you feel like you paid too much, even though you were happy at the time.

PS4 has 40 million units sold already. A business can target the PS4.5 with X potential customers, or PS4 with X+40M potential customers.

While the extra cool stuff might be fun for developers and consumers, the business decision is going to include those extra 40M consoles already present in people's homes. There will of course be a small number of products targeting it, but the vast majority will continue to target the base units.

You're forgetting the gatekeeper power. If Sony says so, then every developer must target the PS4 base and do something extra on the PS4.5 (such as higher resolutions), or you don't get to ship.

PS4 has 40 million units sold already. A business can target the PS4.5 with X potential customers, or PS4 with X+40M potential customers.

While the extra cool stuff might be fun for developers and consumers, the business decision is going to include those extra 40M consoles already present in people's homes. There will of course be a small number of products targeting it, but the vast majority will continue to target the base units.

As I speculated before, the improved console might come at little additional cost to Sony / MS as AMD tries to shift away from 28 nm. They might save even more cost by going with a reduced SoC size, but it looks like Sony and MS choose to got with both (the improved SoC might be not really that much bigger than the old SoC, might even be the same size).

That is all rumours and speculation. But still, Sony and MS might not even care too much how many of the improved consoles they sell. Any of them might be a plus for them, as the old consoles, or the consoles with the shrinked SoC (slim versions) are getting lowered prices by now, and they can price the improved consoles at a higher price without necessarily paying all that much more for them.

In the case Sony and MS didn't got a reduced price by AMD for the SoC redesign, the design of two new SoCs might not have been much more expensive than the design of one. And designing new SoCs at the full price that can be produced by AMDs normal fabs certainly is cheaper than paying for an extra fab just to produce the old SoC.

I think in the end its just an optional extra to both Sony and MS. They will get SOME additional sales from people that do not care to upgrade, they might attract some buyers that were on the fence with the lacking power of the old consoles, they can use the new consoles for "Showcase purposes" now that VR and 4k is looming to also come to the consoles, all the while some devs might use the Neo mode (or whatever is the equivalent on the XB) for minor tweaks and better framerates, without nearly using all the power the new SoC is giving them.

BECAUSE its just x86, BECAUSE it should be fully backwards compatible and BECAUSE they are not trying to come with something radically new this might not be the Sega 32X or Mega Drive CD. You couldn't use a CD with just the Genesis/MD.... you can use a PS4 game for both versions (as long as there are no Neo exclusives).

It might work out just fine for both producers. Even without Neo exclusives, there is some value for customers.

As for devs having now to support 2 versions of the hardware instead of 1... is this really so different to developing for PCs?