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Advice with upgrading to Win10 And ISO files

Started by May 29, 2016 07:32 AM
19 comments, last by ryan20fun 8 years, 7 months ago

And I am not using Steam very frequently but I am pretty sure you can somehow keep this data and restore, I do at Origin simply by restoring Origin Games folder.

That's one thing about Origin I like, It JUST works without any hastles.

Perhaps I need to use steam more.

Having another look at what's new and potential problems, It may not be worth the effor right now.

As a side question can you install your own drivers (particularly GPU) and stop windows update from changing them (Or does turning off the update service solve that?)

Never say Never, Because Never comes too soon. - ryan20fun

Disclaimer: Each post of mine is intended as an attempt of helping and/or bringing some meaningfull insight to the topic at hand. Due to my nature, my good intentions will not always be plainly visible. I apologise in advance and assure you I mean no harm and do not intend to insult anyone.


And I am not using Steam very frequently but I am pretty sure you can somehow keep this data and restore, I do at Origin simply by restoring Origin Games folder.


That's one thing about Origin I like, It JUST works without any hastles.

Perhaps I need to use steam more.

Having another look at what's new and potential problems, It may not be worth the effor right now.

As a side question can you install your own drivers (particularly GPU) and stop windows update from changing them (Or does turning off the update service solve that?)

Turning off solves the problem other than that there is a Microsoft utility to "show/hide updates" but not sure if it works 100%

And although I now use W10, I think W8.1U3 is not necessarily worse especially if you won't use online account features so you may stick with it

mostates by moson?e | Embrace your burden

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if you buy a new windows pc, it will come with Windows 10. Microsoft oem licensing means that system builders stop selling pcs with the old OS as soon as the new ones reach retail so it doesn't take long for the supply of windows 8 pcs to dry up at the store. This inflates the installation figures quickly. You can still get windows 8 dvds legally (we order them for business use at work) but these will eventually be leftover stock and eventually these will be gone too and like hens teeth...

I bought a brand new laptop from HP only two or three weeks ago. Ships with Win7 installed and has a Win10 update/recovery disk coming with it. But the license works for Win7 anyway.

I didn't know they were storing the license keys in the BIOS nowadays (well, duh), so I was a bit startled because I wanted to do a fresh install without all the enterprise stuff and extra software, and there was no sticker with the serial anywhere in the battery slot or on the bottom. So I called support, and although they didn't understand what I wanted (they mailed me a Win7 OEM install DVD free of charge, presumably with some "special code" which does all the license stuff automatically), they were really kind and helpful in obtaining the Win7 DVD... of which I already have half a dozen on my table, only just lacking the number.

But turns out that Windows actually isn't so stupid when it comes to the license number. I just used one random DVD, and it did everything automatically anyway. Never asked for a number (so must obviously have read it from BIOS) and never asked for activation. When I got suspicious and clicked on "activate this copy", it told me: "already is".
So... whatever it did, it worked nicely. Very happy with it, does everything you need and nothing that you don't want. :-)

I hope they keep offering Win7 Pro for another few years.

Are there any subtle gotchas that I will need to be aware of if I do end up upgrading?

The most obvious subtle gotcha that you will have is that you will run Windows 10 afterwards.

I would think very carefully whether you absolutely need Windows 10. There may indeed be valid reasons why you may need Windows 10, for example if you are developing for that platform and want to test your software on it. And yes, in 5-10 years you will probably have no other choice.
But in the mean time, it may just as well be the case that Windows 10 does not offer any significant advantage to you over the Windows version that you use right now (but noticeable disadvantages). Reflect carefully.

Just "free offer is running out" is not a valid argument (limited time offers are often a warning sign, just like "I got 3 other customers interested". They're the kind of sales tricks that used car sellers apply to rip off the foolish).

Now, before the inevitable shitstorm from the Win10 fanboys will start, and we will have 350 posts of how great Windows 10 is and how all the massively negative things don't count... please consider two things:

You don't want 350 posts in response and you label anyone who disagrees a "fanboy", yet you're more than happy to have your say and start a flamewar yourself. Why bother?
Being time limited doesn't make it bad just because there exist other time limited things that are bad. That's a fallacy. One doesn't have to update something that's free, and indeed there is the argument of "if it isn't broke, don't change it" (which answers your later question of why not everyone runs in), but personally I like running the latest versions of my software when possible.
Regarding your other points: I've seen very little marketing for Windows. A notification to users is not aggressive, it's absolutely the correct way to notify people of free updates, same as every other platform (Android is worse, it puts a notification that you can't clear AFAIK). Aggressive would be the endlessly desperate advertising everywhere of all Apple's non-free products.
Windows 10 is the fastest adopted new version other, and with hundreds of millions of users, it's clear it's a runaway success.

http://erebusrpg.sourceforge.net/ - Erebus, Open Source RPG for Windows/Linux/Android
http://conquests.sourceforge.net/ - Conquests, Open Source Civ-like Game for Windows/Linux

Just the common reminder, while upgrade is very convenient, it may also carry over any old configuration problems that might have been lingering in your previous installation.

My upgrade from 7 to 10 went smoothly, everything was there and still worked. After a few days though all the metro apps stopped working (simply wouldn't start). Anything I tried to fix that only made it worse :)

So in the end I downloaded the media tool and did a fresh install over the existing. Everything worked fine so far, it's a really nifty system.

And you can turn off most things you don't like. The telemetry stuff has been there in older versions as well, they just didn't tell you up front.

Fruny: Ftagn! Ia! Ia! std::time_put_byname! Mglui naflftagn std::codecvt eY'ha-nthlei!,char,mbstate_t>

Just the common reminder, while upgrade is very convenient, it may also carry over any old configuration problems that might have been lingering in your previous installation.

There's also an opposite problem. I don't know if they've fixed it yet, but all Autodesk products would fail to install on Win10. You had to install Win7/8, install all your Autodesk products, then upgrade to Win10 :o

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I will not upgrade to Win 10 for the PC I'm writing this now ( Win 7). Some of my old games not even working on Win 8.

I also will not upgrade to Win 10 for my laptop (Win 8.1). Someone I know already did it and a lot of crucial app for work no longer works (they said Win 10 automatically removes the app. !!? )

But if I buy a new PC in the future, Win 10 is obvious choice.

I will not upgrade to Win 10 for the PC I'm writing this now ( Win 7). Some of my old games not even working on Win 8.

I also will not upgrade to Win 10 for my laptop (Win 8.1). Someone I know already did it and a lot of crucial app for work no longer works (they said Win 10 automatically removes the app. !!? )

But if I buy a new PC in the future, Win 10 is obvious choice.

I looked into the app removal thing a bit.

What I found was that certain apps were removed because of (hacky) kernal drivers.

I am confident that what I use will still work in Win10.

What's wierd is that Crysis Warhead(Disk version, no updates) won't start for me (win8), But my brother who has Win8.1 can play it.

Never say Never, Because Never comes too soon. - ryan20fun

Disclaimer: Each post of mine is intended as an attempt of helping and/or bringing some meaningfull insight to the topic at hand. Due to my nature, my good intentions will not always be plainly visible. I apologise in advance and assure you I mean no harm and do not intend to insult anyone.

You don't want 350 posts in response and you label anyone who disagrees a "fanboy", yet you're more than happy to have your say and start a flamewar yourself.

Ah, and here it starts. When did I ever say "anyone who disagrees"? That is a deliberately false statement.

With the exception of Linux user forums, it is a usual thing in any thread (I've seen it on this very forum) which has "Windows" in its title that whenever you say something that is not outright a praise for Microsoft, you get a fanboy shitstorm. Except after Vista came out, then it was the opposite...

I am not feeling wrong about pointing out that I'm being annoyed by that and that I am not willing to go into a (another) dicussion how awesome Windows 10 is in someone's opinion. I don't care about anyone's opinion. They can like it or hate it, I don't mind.

I said one may have valid reasons to upgrade to Win10, and if one thinks that Win10 offers a significant benefit that one absolutely needs, well, then
by all means one should upgrade. But without a valid reason, one should not.

"Free offer runs out" alone is not a valid reason, and Win10 has some noticeable disadvantages as well. Excessive network traffic is one of them, and if you have read the OP's post carefully, network bandwidth is exactly one of the things the OP cares about.

You are saying that a free offer is not bad per se. I say it is (at least in the present form) a strong indicator, not only as a general warning sign -- again, you can be of different opinion but I'm not going to discuss established facts about marketing psychology and con tricks... putting the mark under time pressure is the most well-known con trick -- but also as an indicator on the product's general quality or value.

There was no comparable offer when Windows 7 came out. Why not? Well, because it was not needed.
You could sell Windows 7 for $129 and people would buy it right away. In contrast to that, you must offer Windows 10 for free, and you must push people to take it. You must leave them no other choice by removing Windows 7 from the stores. There is no fallacy in that.

I've seen very little marketing for Windows. A notification to users is not aggressive

Microsoft is not only marketing very aggressively. They have been employing measures which are in my opinion borderline criminal.

For example, they have repeatedly re-issued a number of updated (as "recommended", some with the checkmark turned on automatically) to the unsavy user and re-installed their GWX malware downloader and nagware even after users have explicitly opted out several times. Windows 7 has been actively sabotaged, among other things by several times re-issued covert Win10 telemetry installs, one of them cloaked as security update. The apparent "logic" is that if Win7 gets just as bad as Win10, you can as well upgrade.

There's also tricking unsavy users into believing that installing Windows 10 is the only option, by telling them "Your update is ready, you need to restart, click to restart". This is not merely a "notification". It is deliberately deceptive, exploiting the computer-unsavy user.

Let's also not forget the well-known install countdown story. Again, putting the mark under time pressure, and no obvious way to escape, same con trick as before. This is not aggressive in your opinion? Well, I guess when the Mafia throws a Molotow through your window, that's not aggressive either.

Further, there's the issue with Windows update itself. Some guy at a Windows fan site (I think it was Winfuture, but I might remember wrong?) disassembled the broken updater which suddenly -- after working fine for years -- takes hours if not days now at 100% CPU. He found out that the reason is it calls QueryPerformanceFrequency over and over again in a tight loop (for no apparent reason).

If you make the legitimate assumption that software developers at Microsoft are not inmates of a psychiatric facility who write code while smoking crack, the only logical explanation that remains is: deliberate sabotage.

To make the issue of the update client being broken more serious, manual install updates have been removed, too. Thus, the somewhat computer-savy user cannot use WSUS tools any more. Oh wait, did I say "removed"? That's of course wrong. In fact, Microsoft improved the service. Updates which you could formerly just download and install automated are now available via a vastly superior download service thingie which works only with Internet Explorer with a special ActiveX control installed and where you only need hours for finding each of the roughly 200 updates, which you then need to download one by one.

Ah yes, they made a convenience update rollup, how could I forget that one. My bad. Of course this rollup contains all the covert telemetry updates and all the nagware/ransomware as well, and there is no option to remove them after installing the rollup.

And then, there's threatening users to be "at their own peril" (to quote Chris Capossela) with Windows 7 and stating not to support Skylake and later architectures on any version earlier than Windows 10 for some unspecified (read as: invented) "serious architectural challenges".

And so on, and so on, blah blah...

Not aggressive? Are you kidding me? You must be, because you cannot possibly be serious.

With that in mind, and with the fact in mind that it is indeed very hard to buy a new computer without Windows 10 (but most computers in statistics such as the Valve survey are new computers, they're used by gamers), and with the fact in mind that millions of users have been tricked and coerced into installing Windows 10 against their will, the numbers that you state as "success" are just ridiculous.

In contrast to that, you must offer Windows 10 for free, and you must push people to take it


Speak for yourself - I would have paid for it happily.

Having it for free is just an added benefit.

I find it hard to read through your entire post though (although eventually I did); it seems that every feature that most people might find sensible (e.g. taking away the ability for users to continually postpone updates to home versions, not professional versions) you see as a bad idea.

There are millions of pcs where home users turn off updates for no real reason and forget to turn them back on. These pcs end up in botnets. IT security is my trade, and I can tell you now that closing this loophole is not only a great idea it shows social responsibility that until now Microsoft have lacked in some areas. Similarly, being forward about telemetry and privacy policy where in Windows vista, 7 and 8 they were not so obvious in some regards. The minute they're forward about it and clear on what they send to their servers (wait what?! They send recordings of my voice to their server to aid in making a voice recognition Internet search work?!the NERVE!:)) all the tin foil hat brigade are up in arms.

I'm no fanboy of any OS and when vista and XP came out I avoided them for my own reasons, staying with Windows 2000 for quite some time then moving to Linux before moving then to Windows 7. I'll go wherever I feel comfortable but I find some of the windows 10 fud overly paranoid and strange.

Just to point out, I live in the EU so I know they'll be held to task on privacy rights etc by the EU laws as they were with Windows 'n' etc.

Two cents inserted.

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