I know I've shown this before but I'll show it again.

In the country I live in there was discussion of outlawing Windows 10 because - as of August 2015 - it broke too many Swiss data protection laws to be legal.

From the news link below:

"Depending on the result of the investigations, Microsoft will be recommend to make changes to Windows 10. Conceivable changes could be to expressly give users the opportunity to consent to certain data transmissions to Microsoft (so-called "opt-in") and the users must be better informed. If Microsoft rejects any recommendations or doesn't comply, the commissioner could refer the matter to the Federal Administrative Court. The last resort would be the Federal Court."

http://www.20min.ch/digital/dossier/microsoft/story/-Windows-10-koennte-in-der-Schweiz-verboten-werden--10890387

Doesn't this raise any red flags with you at all? I'm amazed to see some people here using arguments such as "well, I trust Microsoft more than other companies".

...What? I refer you to a previous post mentioning Microsoft previously cooperating with the NSA and I refer you to my signature where you will find a link to Microsoft's official privacy statement, which basically says "we can collect any data we want and we can do anything we want with it".

http://www.20min.ch/digital/dossier/microsoft/story/-Windows-10-koennte-in-der-Schweiz-verboten-werden--10890387

Doesn't this raise any red flags with you at all? I'm amazed to see some people here using arguments such as "well, I trust Microsoft more than other companies".

No, that doesn't raise any red flags for me. And yes, I trust Microsoft much more than many others just because basically their software pays my bills.

What I don't understand is how people in similar position to me as developers targeting Windows systems can't trust tools they are using. Or pretty much hate them just because a system with Cortana needs to (surprise!) send what you are asking to some server to get the response so the EULA reflects it.

http://www.20min.ch/digital/dossier/microsoft/story/-Windows-10-koennte-in-der-Schweiz-verboten-werden--10890387

Doesn't this raise any red flags with you at all? I'm amazed to see some people here using arguments such as "well, I trust Microsoft more than other companies".

No, that doesn't raise any red flags for me. And yes, I trust Microsoft much more than many others just because basically their software pays my bills.

What I don't understand is how people in similar position to me as developers targeting Windows systems can't trust tools they are using. Or pretty much hate them just because a system with Cortana needs to (surprise!) send what you are asking to some server to get the response so the EULA reflects it.

Because Microsoft states, in very vague terms, WHY they are collecting the data. What parts of the EULA are about Cortana? Do you know? Unless you work for Microsoft, that is doubtful. The terms are so vague that than can collect just about anything they want and get away with it. That should raise red flags. This is zero transparency here.

What's the worst damage they are going to do to me? Show me targeted advertising? Sell me software upgrades?

Aha! There we go.

The worst thing they may be doing to you is something you cannot possibly know or anticipate. Anything you do, anything you say today (presumably harmless) is collected. And it may come up in 10 or 15 years in a context that is not so harmless for you.

I gave the example with prostate cancer above. This is not alltogether impossible to happen. Replace cancer with HIV infection if you want. Or assume that you are not a software developer but a junior attorney who must act as assigned council for a child abuser in court. You write some pleadings or such, and it happens that you have another client who files bankruptcy. Meanwhile Microsoft downloads some files from your computer in accordance to their EULA. Ten years later you try to get hired as consultant at a big corporation, but for some reason they just don't want to hire you. Why? Well because they did an inquiry at a data miner and "child abuser" popped up next to your name. Your bank won't give you a loan to buy that house either (for some weird reason they seem to think you've filed a bankruptcy at some point, which they are of course not telling you, they simply turn you down without a reason).

While the attorney example is admittedly a bit far-fetched, the one with insurance companies or the bank is not. This one is alltogether plausible.

For you, the very worst case may look like you paid for your health insurance for 20 years (without being ill) and when you need it they terminate the contract on short notice under some premise. And nobody knows how they could know that you were about to get a therapy... all you did when you came home from the doctor was a web search for possible therapies.

Problem is, you have no idea what the data that is collected is being used for, how it is processed and inter-connected, or who will buy it 10 or 15 years from now.

Yes, now you're going to argue that Google is doing the same. But Google does not control my computer, they don't log my keystrokes, and they can't download files from my harddisk. And if there's something I really don't want them to link to my person, I can just use an anonymizing proxy and switch the browser to "private mode".

"I don't care about data protection because I have nothing to hide" is just like saying "I don't care about freedom of speech because I have nothing to say".

"I don't care about data protection because I have nothing to hide" is just like saying "I don't care about freedom of speech because I have nothing to say".

I think a lot of the comments for Windows 10 are being made based on the laws and values of their particular country. What about the Chinese activist using Windows 10? There are just so many broad issues raised by this that it makes the issue truly frightening. I do not have anything on my computer that I would care about getting out, but there are people in other parts of the world who are doing is a right in my own country that can get them arrested and/or killed theirs.

if you are going to get paranoid about "How someone might use data in the future", well there is another paranoid theory for you: You refuse to use services that collect data to be added into 'the net', and you skillfully work around the system such that there is next to no data entry on you. Suddenly you find that the banks don't want to deal with you, no one wants to hire you, and then men in vans with cameras and telephoto lenses start following you around... Why? Because you're now outside the system, there is no data on you, and you've clearly gone out of your way to hide some kind of activity... So you're probable some kind of criminal and no one wants to deal with your kind...

Because Microsoft states, in very vague terms, WHY they are collecting the data. What parts of the EULA are about Cortana? Do you know? Unless you work for Microsoft, that is doubtful. The terms are so vague that than can collect just about anything they want and get away with it. That should raise red flags. This is zero transparency here.

Again we come to the actual crux of the problem though. The problem isn't what Microsoft are doing, because nobody seems to actually know that. And that's the problem: the vagueness. This kind of vagueness is what generally happens when something that was formerly perfectly clear and reasonable gets run through Marketing and Legal departments and translated from English into buzzwords, jargon and lingo.

Why do they feel the need to log keystrokes and ferret away private files to a server?

They don't. If you can get past the rampant paranoia you'd see that they send "your keystrokes" to their server to perform interactive searches from the start menu. Google also do this.

They send "your files" to their servers in the form of metrics, statistics, and analytics.

To send more would be illegal regardless of eula, a contract cannot ever violate local law.

Not to mention the EU would make mincemeat of Microsoft's European arms if they ever tried such a thing as here in Europe we have proper data privacy laws that value the customer not the company...

Why do they feel the need to log keystrokes and ferret away private files to a server?

They don't. If you can get past the rampant paranoia you'd see that they send "your keystrokes" to their server to perform interactive searches from the start menu. Google also do this.

They send "your files" to their servers in the form of metrics, statistics, and analytics.

To send more would be illegal regardless of eula, a contract cannot ever violate local law.

Not to mention the EU would make mincemeat of Microsoft's European arms if they ever tried such a thing as here in Europe we have proper data privacy laws that value the customer not the company...

And I agree. I do not think that Microsoft has malicious intent. My problem is with the potential for abuse and the lack of transparency. You cannot create a EULA with such broad and vague sections on privacy and not get people worked up. Not today. Not with everything going on in the world and with the countless and endless data breaches. Microsoft can correct this problem - right now! - by being 100% transparent. They have made a very few statements on this issue, but nothing fully explaining what, why and how. We have a right to know the whats, whys and hows.