OP, you feel the need to beg game developers to only create more one-armed-bandits and disregard real games, then say you don't have fun on the real money "game" you put time into? You might be dangerously addicted to online gambling without realizing ...

ok i will try to exlpain my thoughts.

starting with the free to play model subject, i did not use the correct term there, i am not takling about the games that are free or payed, i am talking about games that are massive, that are played by many people, that are populated, not single players not payed mmo fiascos because they are not massively played. only free to play have the conditions to be called massive, thats why my confusion of saying i was talking about free to play games. its not cause its free to play, its cause its masssively played.

wintertime yes im addicted to gaming. yes i realize that i am. and ill will try to explain the fun subject now.

i am a musician, i play the guitar for fun, but since im a professional i have to earn money being a musician, so i play the guitar for fun, but since i work in music, i earn money for playing the guitar.

of corse i have fun playing games, what im asking here with real cash economy its exactly what developers ask from players, money. i believe i can be a professional gamer without any problems at all, and make a life of it. not as gambler, as a gamer working on a game. but lets try to explore this a bit more.

when a game sells you something, when a game asks money from a gamer, its not to give you something more faster to achieve, something more gorgeous to wear, something more unavailable to the ones without money, something more powerfull than the regular items or is just cause its more fun? well i ask nothing more than this, i want to receive money cause i have something more builted with time, saving money, managing all expenditures with all that worthless in-game currencie.

i think there is a big wall between developers and gamers, we live like we were in a war. i dont understand why refusing to embrace gamers in a game instead of trying to keep people out of it... its just ridiculous. i believe there could be a serious gaming industry in the world, with players and organizations to look out for our rights and dont let companies abuse us. i believe gaming is all but developers and gamers, nothing else, and one day together make a stand in the world, like in stock markets and who knows social intervention, cause i realize i am addicted but i am sure also that games are not the devil as some people try to make them to be. OLGA is just jealous that people love more games than her.

not payed mmo fiascos because they are not massively played.

Heard of "World of Warcraft"? I hear it's pretty massive... ;)

of corse i have fun playing games, what im asking here with real cash economy its exactly what developers ask from players, money. i believe i can be a professional gamer without any problems at all, and make a life of it. not as gambler, as a gamer working on a game. but lets try to explore this a bit more.

The idea of providing some kind of monetary incentive for dedicated players of your game to be even more dedicated, and help build your world, is one of the reasons I liked the idea of a real cash economy. I'm not so sure the best way to achieve is by building your entire game around a virtual market economy though... Maybe there are easier ways, that can feel more fair? Like direct rewards for community actions, ingame "jobs", and prices in competitions maybe?

I hope you also do realize that games can't be entirely free, we developers have to eat too, so someone has to pay, somewhere. And with incentives even more so, if it was too easy to just extract cash out of the game, and too fun compared to other actions in the game, the developer and game would quickly stop existing...

You need to consider that too in your business model

i think there is a big wall between developers and gamers, we live like we were in a war.

Wow. I really hope it is not really that bad.

I don't know how to respond to the rest of your post, honestly it is a bit hard to follow... btw, who is OLGA?

i think there is a big wall between developers and gamers,

Again: your problem is not with developers. Developers make what publishers pay them to make. Your problem is with publishers. Publishers pay to get games made that will earn the publisher money. As such, publishers are subject to the whim of gamers. Publishers see what games the gamers play the most, and the publishers pay the developers to make more of those.

i know developers have to eat, but tom is right, the problem is the publishers, but i believe developers can stand up against them and create their own things and stand alone. many developers turn out to become their own publishers so theres no reason for all developers stand side by side fighting those publishers that i also believe are hurting everyone, both players and developers.

olof i know developers have to eat, and with real cash economy they could eat even better even more. just do the math. then theres one thing i forgot to mention also, is that with the actual gaming model business a free to play player will never ever will have the chance of buying an product to support the development since he just plays the game as free to play, if it was real cash economy maybe theres a chance that he with that money earned in that model business spend it again on the game like buying a costume or something, but he can spend it cause he earned it, without any he can never buy nothing. in fact its not much different from the actual business, but instead of trying to sell to the ones we are tired to know that dont have any money, do your job right and try to sell stuff to everybody before we withdraw in a real cash economy business model.

OLGA is an organization that heals/cures players of gaming addiction... lol those kind of things... just a big joke to me, im a serious gamer.

i know developers have to eat, but tom is right, the problem is the publishers, but i believe developers can stand up against them and create their own things and stand alone. many developers turn out to become their own publishers so theres no reason for all developers stand side by side fighting those publishers that i also believe are hurting everyone, both players and developers.

I'm sorry if this has been touched on already, i've read some posts, but not all of them. Do you understand the regulations associated with using real money systems in games? or the problems such a system can cause to those who would abuse it? IIRC Silk roads(i think this is the game) system is economy is heavily abused for drug trafficking. Incorporating actual real world cash enconomy into a game is not only providing a big risk to the developers in terms of legal costs, but also requires being knowledgeable about what countries allow for virtual transactions. Combine this with the fact the economy absolutly must not be exploitable, otherwise their are major risks to the developer suddenly seeing massive loss in profits because some folks figured out how to get a shit ton of money out of the system without putting any in.

Overall the risk to reward ratio is just not very good imo, nor would i personally be inclined to play games which ask me to pump money into the game economy.

Bottom Line: If you want to see it happen, then pick up a book and start learning. stop asking others to make what you want, and put in the effort to make what you want.

i know developers have to eat, but tom is right, the problem is the publishers, but i believe developers can stand up against them and create their own things and stand alone. many developers turn out to become their own publishers so theres no reason for all developers stand side by side fighting those publishers that i also believe are hurting everyone, both players and developers.

olof i know developers have to eat, and with real cash economy they could eat even better even more. just do the math. then theres one thing i forgot to mention also, is that with the actual gaming model business a free to play player will never ever will have the chance of buying an product to support the development since he just plays the game as free to play, if it was real cash economy maybe theres a chance that he with that money earned in that model business spend it again on the game like buying a costume or something, but he can spend it cause he earned it, without any he can never buy nothing. in fact its not much different from the actual business, but instead of trying to sell to the ones we are tired to know that dont have any money, do your job right and try to sell stuff to everybody before we withdraw in a real cash economy business model.

OLGA is an organization that heals/cures players of gaming addiction... lol those kind of things... just a big joke to me, im a serious gamer.

Lets say the game exists that suits your requirements. My big question is where does the money come from?? It has to come from somewhere. If you want the developers making a profit and the players making a profit then there has to be a source. The issue was already pointed out with EU that the player gets 90% of what they put in. Casino style basically. Some people will come out on top others will lose a lot but on average, the house wins. Which doesn't suit your game because most people are losing money. Also if the game is free to play (although Im still not sure what you mean by that) and people will "never ever will have the chance of buying an product to support the development", its very hard to see where that money is coming from.

Also its not nice to mock someone who has a gaming addiction so I would be careful what you are saying. I mean from your posts it seems like you just want to be compensated because you play games so much, instead of playing games as a hobby, relaxation, for fun etc.... So you are quite close to them. Of course I might be wrong but that's the impression you give off.

money will come from the exact same place that is coming already in gaming actual situation. from gamers, but instead of being gamers the ones that pay the big machine of a game that is, publishers, developers, game managers, server, community managers, marketing, etc... asking some money from the ones that have money, and big ammounts of time without any life reward from the ones that have no money. it could be asked more from the ones that have money, and can be given to the ones that have no money plus the developers only, balancing and making the only true dependable machine that is a game work between developers and gamers only.

yes im addicted to games, i dont believe i need a cure, the only thing i need its just to pray to be safe from those kind of schemes like OLGA.

money will come from the exact same place that is coming already in gaming actual situation. from gamers, but instead of being...

That is a different issue.

It is one thing to accept money from players for your business, but it is quite another to pay out money in return to the same groups.

Any time you are giving money back there are strict laws involved.

When it comes to giving money back, one of the biggest concerns globally is money laundering. That is where one person or group gives you money, it goes through your system, and you give money out. Imagine a drug cartel or human trafficking ring creates lots of accounts on your system, then transmits all their illegally-obtained funds to your system. They have a bunch of other accounts on your system and ensure a large part of the money goes to these alternate accounts, then gets extracted. They don't mind if 10% or 20% gets lost in the system, they have successfully laundered 'dirty' money associated with illegal acts into 'clean' money that is not tracked.

In most of the world these systems are covered by gambling laws and contest laws. Regulators will audit your systems and ensure there is no reliable way for criminals to launder money through your system. They'll validate your random number generators, they'll validate how matches are made and what information is shared between clients, and have severe penalties for even the smallest violations. That is why lotteries and gambling generally have groups of people from gambling commissions present when numbers are drawn, and why regulators often require physical radiation sensors for random number generators in gambling machines, because they want eliminate any risk that the system is being used for money laundering.

Real-money games require a lot of legal legwork on your part. They are heavily regulated globally and the laws change from country from country, from state to state, even from city to city. Penalties for violations are severe.

Regulation and money laundering are the biggest reasons there are so few real-money games.

ok, so the people with money will fund the game.... so how do they make money from it then, if their money is going towards the developers and the poorer players. And how do you expect the game to be made without publishers, developers, servers, managers, marketing etc...?? Although from the statement "and big ammounts of time without any life reward " I seems that you are misguided on the purpose of games so itll be hard to convince you of anything.