I didn't know that Steam had a F2P section, thank you Question is, are there any differences between the PC F2P and mobile F2P crowds? The game will have two versions, because of differing expectations on PC vs mobile, but I don't want to make a third version of the game.

I've been thinking and my current plan is to release a simplified version of the game on mobile and probably on the Steam F2P section while having a very effective marketing campaign. Then, I reinvest some of my profits to branch out and develop the traditional pay-once version of the game with an actual adventure mode but still keep the arcade mode that I put in the mobile version in its full form.

Even my original game project would have an arcade version simply for mobile users. I noticed that some mobile game developers try a "one-size-fits-all" rule and the PC and mobile versions are the same (as a PC gamer, I do feel neglected by those developers). I'm not going down that route as my game is an edge case and could possibly appeal to both casual and hardcore gamers, albeit in different game modes.

I guess the F2P standarts on PC, if we talk AAA F2P, are significantly higher than on mobile. F2P crowd on PC expects AAA grade games pretty much... I am not saying you will not be able to somehow find your niche with a "low cost" F2P title, but you have to target people that are open to non-AAA Indie games. There are more of these on PC than you might think, seeing how well some Indie titles did on PC... but you might have to work a little bit harder to "earn their respect", so to say.

I am not the expert on this topic, but from what I have seen, you have to think really hard about going F2P or not, at least on PC. A bad F2P model might lead to players thinking of your game as Pay2Win, which is certainly leading to failure on PC, or at least to lower sales. Or it might lead to a very low spending per player as you do not give enough incentive to pay...

I suggest you spend some time analyzing what other devs did with games similar in quality or size to what you plan to release, compare their pricing model and try to get some rough quotes on how well the game did.

IMO, you might find out that at least on PC, a premium game might lead to better sales overall thanks to no Pay2Win traps your game might fall into, a more predictable sale margin and better reception by your target audience (an upfront price can not only affect how much people expect to get... it also affects how good something looks / tastes / plays... the more expensive, the better it is in the perception of many... yes, this are psychological tricks, but it seems to work. Then there is the thing with different audiences having different tastes... some expect to get everything for free... some wouldn't touch a free game with a ten foot pole (expecting Pay2Win)).

Yes, we all read about those F2P games that made much more than any premium game ever could... but:

1) these were the ones that had EXTREMLY well balanced F2P systems... some of them even have people that are only responsible for balancing the ingame economy!

2) economy of scale... if your game attracts millions of players, you have a higher chance to attract the whales you need to survive. If you are an MMO with heavy user interaction, the average spending of your whales goes up a lot, as they can show off their shiny premium stuff in front of others. If you can compete against millions of players, being #1 in the highscores means something.

Something that has also to be taken into account: you can always lower your price.... but the opposite way does not work.

If you choose a premium price on PC, don't start with 1$... start with the common price point for Indie games, 10-15$... you can always lower the price later, which might actually lead to an additional sales boost. People think your game is a bargain when you sell it at your price target, because the price was higher before.

Similarly, you can always switch to a F2P model if the up-front price sales do poorly... of course that isn't as simple as lowering the price, you need an ingame store, premium items and an ingame economy tailored to the F2P model. But lots of games made that transition in the past, and while it might not have taken them from zero to hero, it seems it prolonged the life of some MMOs doing poorly as premium games quite well.

Of course, for every platform and revenue model you support, you will need to tailor your game. Your mobile version will need some heavy rework to work on PC.... the art assets might still work, but you have to rework controls, you have to tailor ingame economy, screen aspect ratios and so on. So if you think that this is too much work, make your decision which is the better platform for your low cost version... just make sure to analyze the platforms beforehand, and make sure your F2P economy is well thought out if you want to go in this direction, as a bad implementation can kill a game (if the freeloaders leave because of P2W, you will not attract a lot of Whales).

I didn't know that Steam had a F2P section, thank you Question is, are there any differences between the PC F2P and mobile F2P crowds? The game will have two versions, because of differing expectations on PC vs mobile, but I don't want to make a third version of the game.

I've been thinking and my current plan is to release a simplified version of the game on mobile and probably on the Steam F2P section while having a very effective marketing campaign. Then, I reinvest some of my profits to branch out and develop the traditional pay-once version of the game with an actual adventure mode but still keep the arcade mode that I put in the mobile version in its full form.

Even my original game project would have an arcade version simply for mobile users. I noticed that some mobile game developers try a "one-size-fits-all" rule and the PC and mobile versions are the same (as a PC gamer, I do feel neglected by those developers). I'm not going down that route as my game is an edge case and could possibly appeal to both casual and hardcore gamers, albeit in different game modes.

I guess the F2P standarts on PC, if we talk AAA F2P, are significantly higher than on mobile. F2P crowd on PC expects AAA grade games pretty much... I am not saying you will not be able to somehow find your niche with a "low cost" F2P title, but you have to target people that are open to non-AAA Indie games. There are more of these on PC than you might think, seeing how well some Indie titles did on PC... but you might have to work a little bit harder to "earn their respect", so to say.

I am not the expert on this topic, but from what I have seen, you have to think really hard about going F2P or not, at least on PC. A bad F2P model might lead to players thinking of your game as Pay2Win, which is certainly leading to failure on PC, or at least to lower sales. Or it might lead to a very low spending per player as you do not give enough incentive to pay...

I suggest you spend some time analyzing what other devs did with games similar in quality or size to what you plan to release, compare their pricing model and try to get some rough quotes on how well the game did.

IMO, you might find out that at least on PC, a premium game might lead to better sales overall thanks to no Pay2Win traps your game might fall into, a more predictable sale margin and better reception by your target audience (an upfront price can not only affect how much people expect to get... it also affects how good something looks / tastes / plays... the more expensive, the better it is in the perception of many... yes, this are psychological tricks, but it seems to work. Then there is the thing with different audiences having different tastes... some expect to get everything for free... some wouldn't touch a free game with a ten foot pole (expecting Pay2Win)).

Something that has also to be taken into account: you can always lower your price.... but the opposite way does not work.

If you choose a premium price on PC, don't start with 1$... start with the common price point for Indie games, 10-15$... you can always lower the price later, which might actually lead to an additional sales boost. People think your game is a bargain when you sell it at your price target, because the price was higher before.

Similarly, you can always switch to a F2P model if the up-front price sales do poorly... of course that isn't as simple as lowering the price, you need an ingame store, premium items and an ingame economy tailored to the F2P model. But lots of games made that transition in the past, and while it might not have taken them from zero to hero, it seems it prolonged the life of some MMOs doing poorly as premium games quite well.

Of course, for every platform and revenue model you support, you will need to tailor your game. Your mobile version will need some heavy rework to work on PC.... the art assets might still work, but you have to rework controls, you have to tailor ingame economy, screen aspect ratios and so on. So if you think that this is too much work, make your decision which is the better platform for your low cost version... just make sure to analyze the platforms beforehand, and make sure your F2P economy is well thought out if you want to go in this direction, as a bad implementation can kill a game (if the freeloaders leave because of P2W, you will not attract a lot of Whales).

Part of my budget accounts for outsourcing artwork from a very good 3D artist. His prices are reasonable and the assets that he's made before look superb. I'm going for a better looking game than that mouse game which is popular in Steam F2P. It's not entirely going to be AAA, but at least it will look better than some of the most popular games. It'll be on UE4, so not sure how much it would be a barrier for PC.

I've carefully studied business models which companies used in mobile games, and the fairest that I found was from the likes of Candy Crush, Jetpack Joyride and others. I like those games which allow you to complete the game without spending a penny, without unnecessary grinding, so I'm going to do the same for my game. So as you said, some people expect to get everything for free - that will indeed be possible to achieve. GamesBrief F2P design rules were very helpful in designing exactly what will be in the F2P version.

You're also right about the tweaking of in-game economies too. In the adventure version, the different boards and characters are unlocked through normal gameplay which could be used in the arcade mode. But in the arcade-only version, I have to make it possible to achieve those things in a different way and monetise it, while making the game fair in the meantime.

Part of my budget accounts for outsourcing artwork from a very good 3D artist. His prices are reasonable and the assets that he's made before look superb. I'm going for a better looking game than that mouse game which is popular in Steam F2P. It's not entirely going to be AAA, but at least it will look better than some of the most popular games. It'll be on UE4, so not sure how much it would be a barrier for PC.

I've carefully studied business models which companies used in mobile games, and the fairest that I found was from the likes of Candy Crush, Jetpack Joyride and others. I like those games which allow you to complete the game without spending a penny, without unnecessary grinding, so I'm going to do the same for my game. So as you said, some people expect to get everything for free - that will indeed be possible to achieve. GamesBrief F2P design rules were very helpful in designing exactly what will be in the F2P version.

You're also right about the tweaking of in-game economies too. In the adventure version, the different boards and characters are unlocked through normal gameplay which could be used in the arcade mode. But in the arcade-only version, I have to make it possible to achieve those things in a different way and monetise it, while making the game fair in the meantime.

Good looking art (As in: a well chosen, consistent art style) is always a plus, more so on PC where displays are usually larger and people spend more time per play session.

Don't know why you question UE4 as a PC Game engine. Unreal started on PC, and these engines are first and foremost PC engines, even though they branched out to support other platforms too. While UE4 can certainly keep up with unity an others on mobile platforms, on the PC it might at the moment actually have an edge over most other popular engines (if you are able to use its cutting edges features, that is).

So don't worry, the engine you have chosen is more than capable to be used as a PC engine!

Well, see, I am not 100% convinced you can apply mobile F2P systems to a PC game. Things like a time-lockout (AFAIK Candy crush originally had something like that) works fine for mobile because most people just want to play a quick game, and might not even have a problem if they are locked out for an hour or two after their session.

Similar things worked fine in some webgames, as most people played them in quick 5 minutes sessions drawn out during their (work-)day...

All the while there where always the addicts that just wanted an additional playthrough per session (or played your game 24/7) and are happy to shell out cash to play during the lockout period... I am not sure I personally would want to attract such a crowd as my whales of choice, but that is just my personal opinion.

A more hardcore player sitting down in front of his PC to play your game for an hour or two on the other hand will be pretty pissed if he gets a prompt to buy additional playtime with premium currency after 10 minutes.

So if you want to target PC... do your research again, this time for PC F2P titles. Some things might transfer quite well from mobile to a PC space, but some might not.

Part of my budget accounts for outsourcing artwork from a very good 3D artist. His prices are reasonable and the assets that he's made before look superb. I'm going for a better looking game than that mouse game which is popular in Steam F2P. It's not entirely going to be AAA, but at least it will look better than some of the most popular games. It'll be on UE4, so not sure how much it would be a barrier for PC.

I've carefully studied business models which companies used in mobile games, and the fairest that I found was from the likes of Candy Crush, Jetpack Joyride and others. I like those games which allow you to complete the game without spending a penny, without unnecessary grinding, so I'm going to do the same for my game. So as you said, some people expect to get everything for free - that will indeed be possible to achieve. GamesBrief F2P design rules were very helpful in designing exactly what will be in the F2P version.

You're also right about the tweaking of in-game economies too. In the adventure version, the different boards and characters are unlocked through normal gameplay which could be used in the arcade mode. But in the arcade-only version, I have to make it possible to achieve those things in a different way and monetise it, while making the game fair in the meantime.

Good looking art (As in: a well chosen, consistent art style) is always a plus, more so on PC where displays are usually larger and people spend more time per play session.

Don't know why you question UE4 as a PC Game engine. Unreal started on PC, and these engines are first and foremost PC engines, even though they branched out to support other platforms too. While UE4 can certainly keep up with unity an others on mobile platforms, on the PC it might at the moment actually have an edge over most other popular engines (if you are able to use its cutting edges features, that is).

So don't worry, the engine you have chosen is more than capable to be used as a PC engine!

Well, see, I am not 100% convinced you can apply mobile F2P systems to a PC game. Things like a time-lockout (AFAIK Candy crush originally had something like that) works fine for mobile because most people just want to play a quick game, and might not even have a problem if they are locked out for an hour or two after their session.

Similar things worked fine in some webgames, as most people played them in quick 5 minutes sessions drawn out during their (work-)day...

All the while there where always the addicts that just wanted an additional playthrough per session (or played your game 24/7) and are happy to shell out cash to play during the lockout period... I am not sure I personally would want to attract such a crowd as my whales of choice, but that is just my personal opinion.

A more hardcore player sitting down in front of his PC to play your game for an hour or two on the other hand will be pretty pissed if he gets a prompt to buy additional playtime with premium currency after 10 minutes.

So if you want to target PC... do your research again, this time for PC F2P titles. Some things might transfer quite well from mobile to a PC space, but some might not.

I'm just worried about the game's system requirements. I will spend more money to get good looking art, good sound effects, good voice acting and a good soundtrack. I read somewhere that a good soundtrack would open up more avenues for people to discover the game, and the arcade version would have a small portion of all of those things.

What my plan for the F2P game is that there are no time limits and no paywalls whatsoever. The items which can be bought in the in-game shop are either going to be something which is beneficial but not necessary (like a gem doubler) or just cosmetic (a new character or a new board with fancy effects). Both types could be earned through normal gameplay so freeloaders could get the premium items without grinding but it will take just a little bit longer to get them. Jetpack Joyride does require some grinding to get the premium items, though, and I didn't like having to play the game for 5 hours just to get a new jetpack. It is partly to do with the fact that you only have a few avenues to earn coins from normal gameplay - collect them or complete missions. My game will have more things that you can do that would earn you the virtual currency.

I particularly dislike grinding in F2P games and I dislike games even more which force you to pay in order for you to proceed. My game's not going to have either of those - it's going to be a fun experience for non-paying and paying players regardless.

Edit: What differences should there be in the arcade mode in both versions, as one is pay-once and another is F2P? I know that in the pay-once version, I can allow the items to be earned through the adventure mode, but in that case the virtual currency in the arcade mode in the pay-once version would be meaningless.

I'm just worried about the game's system requirements. I will spend more money to get good looking art, good sound effects, good voice acting and a good soundtrack. I read somewhere that a good soundtrack would open up more avenues for people to discover the game, and the arcade version would have a small portion of all of those things.

What my plan for the F2P game is that there are no time limits and no paywalls whatsoever. The items which can be bought in the in-game shop are either going to be something which is beneficial but not necessary (like a gem doubler) or just cosmetic (a new character or a new board with fancy effects). Both types could be earned through normal gameplay so freeloaders could get the premium items without grinding but it will take just a little bit longer to get them. Jetpack Joyride does require some grinding to get the premium items, though, and I didn't like having to play the game for 5 hours just to get a new jetpack. It is partly to do with the fact that you only have a few avenues to earn coins from normal gameplay - collect them or complete missions. My game will have more things that you can do that would earn you the virtual currency.

I particularly dislike grinding in F2P games and I dislike games even more which force you to pay in order for you to proceed. My game's not going to have either of those - it's going to be a fun experience for non-paying and paying players regardless.

Edit: What differences should there be in the arcade mode in both versions, as one is pay-once and another is F2P? I know that in the pay-once version, I can allow the items to be earned through the adventure mode, but in that case the virtual currency in the arcade mode in the pay-once version would be meaningless.

Don't be... if you use UE4 and have a Team of expierienced game devs, System requirements can be a s high or low as your asset quality / amount of physics or gameplay processing / rendering quality allows. Within limits, of course (a game built with todays engines for PC will struggle on an 486 CPU )

I think this kind F2P Systems works just fine on PC. At least the ones I have seen seem to tend to use similar mechanics.

I don't understand the problem with your virtual currency in your Pay-once version... for one, in the Pay-once version, ingame economy is of lesser importance... of course it is good to keep it in check so it can serve as another motivation for players, but really, its not tied to your revenue, so you have more wiggle room.

How to make it non-reduntant in your game design is of course a question ighly linked to your specific design. As you only shared rather vague details about it, it is hard to understand why it would be a problem. I do think it can be overcome anyway... in the end, you pay-once and F2P version, even if they share part of the gameplay, do not need to replicate these parts exactly as long as you do not plan to have cross-game online multiplayer...

I'm just worried about the game's system requirements. I will spend more money to get good looking art, good sound effects, good voice acting and a good soundtrack. I read somewhere that a good soundtrack would open up more avenues for people to discover the game, and the arcade version would have a small portion of all of those things.

What my plan for the F2P game is that there are no time limits and no paywalls whatsoever. The items which can be bought in the in-game shop are either going to be something which is beneficial but not necessary (like a gem doubler) or just cosmetic (a new character or a new board with fancy effects). Both types could be earned through normal gameplay so freeloaders could get the premium items without grinding but it will take just a little bit longer to get them. Jetpack Joyride does require some grinding to get the premium items, though, and I didn't like having to play the game for 5 hours just to get a new jetpack. It is partly to do with the fact that you only have a few avenues to earn coins from normal gameplay - collect them or complete missions. My game will have more things that you can do that would earn you the virtual currency.

I particularly dislike grinding in F2P games and I dislike games even more which force you to pay in order for you to proceed. My game's not going to have either of those - it's going to be a fun experience for non-paying and paying players regardless.

Edit: What differences should there be in the arcade mode in both versions, as one is pay-once and another is F2P? I know that in the pay-once version, I can allow the items to be earned through the adventure mode, but in that case the virtual currency in the arcade mode in the pay-once version would be meaningless.

Don't be... if you use UE4 and have a Team of expierienced game devs, System requirements can be a s high or low as your asset quality / amount of physics or gameplay processing / rendering quality allows. Within limits, of course (a game built with todays engines for PC will struggle on an 486 CPU )

I think this kind F2P Systems works just fine on PC. At least the ones I have seen seem to tend to use similar mechanics.

I don't understand the problem with your virtual currency in your Pay-once version... for one, in the Pay-once version, ingame economy is of lesser importance... of course it is good to keep it in check so it can serve as another motivation for players, but really, its not tied to your revenue, so you have more wiggle room.

How to make it non-reduntant in your game design is of course a question ighly linked to your specific design. As you only shared rather vague details about it, it is hard to understand why it would be a problem. I do think it can be overcome anyway... in the end, you pay-once and F2P version, even if they share part of the gameplay, do not need to replicate these parts exactly as long as you do not plan to have cross-game online multiplayer...

Oh, good. Because the graphics are going to be cartoony and I don't want to limit the amount of users by having high system requirements.

I was a bit worried about the incentives but you're right - both versions are tailored to the target market as opposed to a one-size-fits-all and even have different main characters (though they share the same characters as the mobile version is a spin-off from the original title).

And how long shall I support a F2P title, if I plan to have sequels? On one hand, I don't want to drop support too early but on the other hand, I don't want to be burnt out from the same title. And when I mean support, I mean adding more content.