Personally I think IP protection should die with the creator, at least for entertainment. Issues may be different for other industries. But if anyone ever made some sort of Rule34 fan crap with my IP, I would probably hate them from the grave and beyond. And I would send them C&Ds all day every day until I did die. Well maybe not that many but ugh, just ugh.

As far as general non-Rule34 stuff, disgusting? I don't know about that. But it is sad that people can't create their own things. Although, that may be unfair. I mean, the majority of the world is not creative in the sense that they are capable of making their own IP. And there are also time limitations for people who have other things they need to do.

There was some work I read awhile back about how some people didn't believe you could have vivid mental pictures, because they couldn't, and people who did never realized that there were people who couldn't. Perhaps a strong imagination is not really a choice, either you have it/get it from early environment, or you don't have it and no amount of effort or shaming will cause you to spawn it. Thus telling people to create their own thing may be unfair.

I'm not opposed to fan works in general. Obviously, passing off elements of a published work as your own is dishonest, but that doesn't seem to be what OP is talking about. It looks to me like the OP is talking about fan-fiction.

The way I look at it, if you create a story universe, but only allow yourself to create works that are derived from that universe, then you're limiting the potential reach and breadth of your own creation to what your own imagination can come up with. For some people, that's a desirable feature. Fine - you want total creative control something you invented. I respect that. But you're limiting the scope of your own creation by doing so. Look at the sprawling universes that Star Trek and Star Wars have become - would they have been so if not for expanded universe material (which is essentially authorized fan-fiction)? Allowing fan works (that is, works set in your fictional universe) that are pulled off well and don't contradict canon can only add to the viability and scope of a story universe. If a fan work contradicts the direction you want to go, what's to stop you from just declaring it non-canon, as is done for many large brands?

Also, it's a misconception that writing a fan-fiction takes no creativity. It does take creativity to invent a new world. It does take creativity to create new characters. However, it also takes creativity and imagination to come up with a new story regardless of setting. Are (for example) period pieces "uncreative" because they set their stories in a world that was not invented by the writer, ie. the "real world"? Is historical fiction that features real people as characters "disgusting" because the writer did not invent those characters from scratch? Arguably in some cases it takes MORE skill and creativity to work within the bounds of a pre-existing universe. You might not have to invent the rules, but you might have to invent ways to circumvent the ones that are already there for your story to work with the rest of the world and be believable as a portrayal of that world.

I'm not opposed to fan works in general. Obviously, passing off elements of a published work as your own is dishonest, but that doesn't seem to be what OP is talking about. It looks to me like the OP is talking about fan-fiction.

The way I look at it, if you create a story universe, but only allow yourself to create works that are derived from that universe, then you're limiting the potential reach and breadth of your own creation to what your own imagination can come up with. For some people, that's a desirable feature. Fine - you want total creative control something you invented. I respect that. But you're limiting the scope of your own creation by doing so. Look at the sprawling universes that Star Trek and Star Wars have become - would they have been so if not for expanded universe material (which is essentially authorized fan-fiction)? Allowing fan works (that is, works set in your fictional universe) that are pulled off well and don't contradict canon can only add to the viability and scope of a story universe. If a fan work contradicts the direction you want to go, what's to stop you from just declaring it non-canon, as is done for many large brands?

Also, it's a misconception that writing a fan-fiction takes no creativity. It does take creativity to invent a new world. It does take creativity to create new characters. However, it also takes creativity and imagination to come up with a new story regardless of setting. Are (for example) period pieces "uncreative" because they set their stories in a world that was not invented by the writer, ie. the "real world"? Is historical fiction that features real people as characters "disgusting" because the writer did not invent those characters from scratch? Arguably in some cases it takes MORE skill and creativity to work within the bounds of a pre-existing universe. You might not have to invent the rules, but you might have to invent ways to circumvent the ones that are already there for your story to work with the rest of the world and be believable as a portrayal of that world.

Authorized fan fiction? Generally by established writers who have to follow rules laid down by the creator. That's totally different than fan fiction.

The thing that I always think of is this hypothetical:

What if the fan game uses a great story, but later the company uses an extremely similar story. Then you have two issues, the potential C&D from the company and possible issue of fan game writer feeling they stole his story and start demanding credit.

As for this being game industry only, I follow a Youtuber on Facebook who has been in repeated legal problems for her parodies of songs and has had several videos pulled. It got to the point that she made a video on her channel letting fans know she was going to take a break to learn what she had to do in order to continue making them, that was a couple of years ago and since then I think she has only posted two or three videos. She continues to post on FB about her family and such, but I don't see much about her music parodies anymore. Some companies don't care for any industry, like Hideo Kojima, who actually praised the Metal Gear fan movie and said he was looking forward to the future ones and any future work from those people.

It is a fine line and one company may not stop you while another may. Then there are some who claim C&Ds while the company claims they never sent it.Super Mario Bros X (SMBX) is one such game. The creator of it claimed Nintendo sent a C&D to him, but when asked by a game magazine Nintendo said they have no record of sending him a C&D. That creator is doing good though as he went on to create Terraria.

Make a fan game, but be ready to pull it if you get a C&D. I won't sign anything to fight such a pointless battle.

Make a fan game, but be ready to pull it if you get a C&D.

I wouldn't take that route; if you REALLY want to play in the sandbox of someone else then ask.

Worst comes to the worst you'll get told 'no' but you won't have wasted years of your time when the project is finally noticed.

I wouldn't take that route; if you REALLY want to play in the sandbox of someone else then ask.

Worst comes to the worst you'll get told 'no' but you won't have wasted years of your time when the project is finally noticed.

Indies will answer. I contacted Konami back in 2003 asking if I could make a fan game of Metal Gear Solid, twelve years later and I've never got a reply. See you and I view it differently. You say "wasted years" while I see it as just another chance to hone your skills and make games that you love to make.

I'm just posting to add my voice of opposition to this stupid petition and am in full agreement with the general sentiments expressed here.

You can make a game inspired by other games, but you cannot infringe on their intellectual property rights and copyright without permission.

game industry shuts down fan games that are never out to make money.

In war, one nation might spend millions of dollars building a factory or roads or bridges that another nation spends 1/100th of the price to destroy.

It almost always costs less money to destroy something than it costs to create it.

In videogames, or movies, or music, or books, creators can spend millions and millions of dollars to create something that someone can come along and damage or utterly ruin for a tiny fraction of the cost.

In fact, I despise the very idea.

You despise the idea that others own something that you can't do whatever you want to with?

"I want to do X. I can't do X, so I DESPISE anyone who tries to stop me. I DESERVE to use other people's property. I bought a copy of a game once, so therefore it's like I'm a part-owner, right? I DEMAND my RIGHTS to do whatever *I* want to do." <- While this isn't what you mean, this is sometimes what it sounds like.

We unfortunately live in a culture that repeatedly focuses on "rights" instead of "duty". Everyone feels entitled to everything, and how-dare-anyone-say-otherwise?

'Freedom freedom freedom'. Too much freedom can be a dangerous thing. People shouldn't always have the freedom to do whatever they want at other people's expense. Freedom must be coupled with restraint and limitations. Absolute freedom is absolute anarchy.

What makes Youtube videos, fanart and fanficiton so special? Why is it always games?

It's not. You don't remember JK Rowling crying in court because someone was making a Harry Potter encyclopedia? That was kinda embarrassing, and sits on the opposite end of the spectrum of the copyright debate. The real balance is somewhere in the middle between consumers demanding the ability to ruin franchises, and creators demanding the ability to monetize every aspect of the aftermarket.

I finally decided to be one who would ... say no to fan game c&d's (Cease & Desist).

And... what are you giving in exchange for this demand?

You want X, what are you giving in exchange for X? Or are you demanding the "right" to definitely damage, and potentially destroy, our creations without our permission, and you're not giving anything in exchange?

You can't give us something you're already giving us, that's not a fair trade.

So you're making a demand, and... if we don't cave to your unbalanced self-entitlement, you'll... what? Smear us in the media? So it's kinda like terrorism or blackmail?

That is why I made this petition.

Have you studied the other side of the view before initiating the attack?

I finally decided to be one who would put his foot down

Demanding something you want, without giving anything in return, without considering the other side of the coin, and without any compromise, while slinging mud at the opposing side, isn't exactly heroic. You're not standing up for others, you're demanding things for yourself.

By the way, we are the "indie developers" you claim to be getting pushed around like dirt. We don't want our work stolen. We want to make a living doing what we love: Creating worlds.

You want to play games for free without paying us for our work. It's not quite as clear-cut as you think. How about doing some research into this? It's really interesting how copyright developed over the years - I found it enjoyable to learn, and I've come to my own viewpoint somewhere balanced between the three extreme camps that form the triangle of the copyright debate.

I agree the copyright system needs an overhaul, but getting rid of it entirely would be even worse. We need to apply intelligent change, not gut-reaction burn-the-house-to-the-ground change.

I'm not going to suck up to having no fan games.

I'm not sure how it's "sucking up"... but why not use your own brain, your own creativity, to create your own worlds? There's plenty of tools available. Anyone who has the skill to create a "fan game" obviously has the skill to create a unique, original, creative work of art instead of regurgitating someone else's ideas.

Why do I get the feeling that this is slowly edging towards the right to make a game where "I can marry the hulk lol".

No, on a more serious note I don't want people trashing my ideas either. Some fan works I consider flattery but there is a line which must be drawn in the sand somewhere to stop people being immature idiots, and there will always be someone on the Internet who might take it too far. This is why we have laws in place to prevent misuse of trademarks, copyrighted material etc.

I will always remember as a 14 year old kid having written a longish novel which another kid in school "borrowed" from me and proceeded to copy verbatim with a pen and lots of paper. Gotta admire his guts for trying but I guess that was my first taste of over the top fan work, bordering on piracy... so... nah thanks.

Come on folks, this isn't mastermind's first rodeo with posting this type of crap, and never returning. don't get worked up over what he says, he's not going to bother to return and generate any form of a meaningful discussion. Now then, I think this type of topic is definitely open for debate, but it's currently tied down to that abrasive opening post and imo doesn't really cater to the potential of this discussion what so ever. perhaps it'd be best to start a new topic on this subject if people feel their is plenty of room for discussion on this topic?